I live in Ithaca NY and went to a KFC for lunch today. While i was in there i saw a dual chambered vending machine selling superballs. In the right chamber they had superballs for 25 cents. In the left chamber they had the virtually exact same superballs for 50 cents with the only exception being that there were a few scattered “8 ball” superballs that would give you a free kids meal if you got it. My arguement is that this is illegal. You have established the price of the product at 25 cents. You have also established that in order to join this contest you must purchase the same item but at a price of 50 cents thereby establishing the price of the contest at 25 cents. We have all heard the no purchace nessesary to enter contest disclaimers. Im not a lawyer but did the KFC bigwigs drop the ball on this one?? Even if its not illegal it sure as hell seems immoral and especially since it targets children. Your thoughts?
Was there a disclaimer on the machine stating the extra 25 cents was going to a charity, effectively making the free meal/8-ball thing a KFC-sponsored incentive to give to charity rather than gamble on a free meal?
No charity was involved.
IMHO, they’re likely running afoul of the state’s gaming regulations and thus the law.
You could peruse the website of what seems to be the pertinent regulatory authority for New York and possibly give 'em a call and/or file a complaint yourself were you inclined… http://www.racing.state.ny.us/
-AmbushBug
disclaimer: I work for a company which manufactures gaming devices but I’m not in the legal department, not a lawyer, and this isn’t a bona fide legal opinion or the opinion of my company.
This is definately in the gray areas. It is pretty common to have vending machines with a small amount of a really really good thing, and a large amount of a less desireable thing. For example, you might have a machine that has some really cool skull rings in them (and have the skull ring prominently featured in the display) and yet have the bulk of the prizes be cheap tin rings.
This situation isn’t all that different.
I’m no lawyer, but this sounds possibly illegal to me, as well. You’ve got a game of chance that delivers something of value, in exchange for a placed wager. Technically, this is pretty much what a “gambling device” is. Now, arcades which give out tickets, for instance, are doing a similar thing. However, the key is generally that arcade ticket machines are considered games of skill. Back in the early days of pinball, there was much legal wrangling over machines that paid out in anything, as early pinball (and “bingo”) machines didn’t have flippers, per se.
I’m sure there are precedents here; is this something that KFC, Inc. seems to have put in place? Or is it simply something that the local manager came up with?
It seems to be a corperate thing…i talked to the store manager and he told me that they just put the machine in yesterday and that he knew nothing about it.
From NY Penal Article 225
According to the same article, a slot machine is a gambling device, and possession of such is a class A misdemeanor.
Given jonpluc’s description, it sounds pretty illegal to me.
That’s interesting- my question is, how does this differ from the gumball machines that give a free movie ticket or meal (or other prize) when you get a gumball of a certain color? We have them all over in my area (also NY, about 45 minutes away from the OP- hi neighbor!).
In that case, you’re still inserting a coin, turning the crank, and hoping for a certain gumball instead of a plain one, as that will net you a prize. Is this the same issue?
What about those claw games?
What’s so bad about children gambling?
Crane games (the bit with the claw) are, theoretically, a “game of skill” - even though it’s mostly a matter of prize placement that determines what you can get, you do have to make a nonzero effort to select something winnable (and desirable), not to mention actually snagging it.
I suppose the difference may be that a legal vending machine can’t be modified so as to take money without giving something in return (an empty vending machine tells you it’s empty). The something does not have to be of equivalent value, so maybe the KFC machine is legal after all (although I still think it stinks).
I think the key word is “may”, folks. A slot machine may not pay off anything if you put money into it. I haven’t seen this KFC machine but it sounds like it delivers a product every time. You simply pay 50 cents at the chance of getting something better, not the chance of getting nothing at all.
I work in a casino and regularly assist our marketing department with their promotions. One of the caveats of our state gaming laws is that if we have an “instant win” promotion, everybody must have an equal chance of winning any of the prizes, and everybody must win something. This is not gambling as our state sees it.
Oops, I got the wrong part of the quote. Here’s the “may” part I meant:
I have nothing to add here. I’d just like to say that I live a few blocks from the aforementioned KFC. This gives me an excuse to go check it out for myself.
Mmmm…original recipe…mmmm.
IANAL, but it seems to me that there are definitely in the grey area. I guess that’s how the legal system works. Someone can legally operate in the grey area until they lose in court, then the situation is more clearly defined and that particular grey area is eliminated.
I agree that exposing kids to institutionalized gambling is a bad idea. If I was pressed to say why, I’d say that it’s because kids haven’t yet internalized enough self-control to handle the addictive nature of gambling.
It seems like a lot of parents would be upset about this. And it seems like KFC would have anticipated their reaction. But maybe I’m overreacting.
i think the difference betwen the claw game and the super ball slot machine is that in the claw game you havnt clearly established a value for the prize. In this circumstance you have set a price for the product at 25 cents. I think that if you had a single chamber with the same price and had the 8 ball thing that may be more acceptable. I have seen many things like gumball machines in which if you get the smiley face you win a prize etc and that may be ok. I think the difference here is that you have 2 seperate items in the same machine and one item only has a greater value simply because of the contest. That is gambling IMHO
As for claw games, I have seen folks who really can consistently get prizes out of them, using skill. It’s not a very common skill, to be sure, and probably the only way to develop it is by plunking insane amounts of money into the machines, but it is a skill.