China is one f*cked up society

[raskolnik]

@constanze

I fail to see the advantage to beating the women indoors instead of in the streets compared to not beating the women by empowering them.

Or you could remove the utterly psycho-babble phrase ‘empower’ and just NOT BEAT THE WOMEN!

[China_Guy]

It may have happened but it sure sounds like a propaganda piece, and probably from some local government without any kind of management from above.

1. the camera happened to frame the action
2. the walking toddler looks real
3. video looks to me like a hack job from just before the impact to running the girl over
4. there is not an instant crowd of gawkers forming…this is exceedingly rare in a nation of 1.4 billion busy bodies
5. kid ends up in the nicest ICU in China
6. The ICU belongs to the China military, which given the modernity means it’s for top ranked military. Do I have to point out how implausible that is

news reports have:

1. mother leaving 2 year old toddler alone in a shop. Bad reporting or implausible
2. Van driver talking on his cell phone when the accident occured. Yep, phones and driving are a serious problem in China, and if it were a propaganda piece, this would be a central theme
3. before the police can catch the driver, a reporter manages to reach the driver who gives are sterotypical media response of “If she is dead, I may pay only about 20,000 yuan ($3,125). But if she is injured, it may cost me hundreds of thousands yuan,” Even in China people understand about self-incrimination.

This could be a case of shoddy reporting and fuzzy details, it could have happened, and it very plausibly could be a propaganda piece. Based on my 15 years of living in China, vote for propaganda. YMMV

[KarlGauss]

Well, maybe you don’t believe it, China Guy but:

a) the linked articles explain why the kid was left alone
b) she was transferred to the military hospital after receiving initial treatment at a smaller facility
c) she has been (partially) named
d) two of the drivers (the two that ran her over) have been arrested and named

Link #1

Link#2

I think you can give it a rest.

ETA: If this is staged, that kid is a damn fine actress and the FX people did a super job with the gore (spilling out in perfect timing with the trauma), i.e. it is not a fake.

[levdrakon]

I just saw this on CNN, and watched their censored video. Then I googled around and found what seemed to be an un-edited or less-edited version. It looks like the video is getting edited a lot, so it’s not surprising it looks edited.

The “real” video I saw on Youtube shows the first van hitting her, stopping and backing up over her, then pulling forward and running her over again and driving away.

[straight_man]

@constanze

From your own quote

The details of good Samaritan laws/acts in various jurisdictions vary, including who is protected from liability and in what circumstances.
In some jurisdictions, unless a caretaker relationship (such as a parent-child or doctor-patient relationship) exists prior to the illness or injury, or the “good Samaritan” is responsible for the existence of the illness or injury, no person is required to give aid of any sort to a victim.

So how am I jumping on the US by quoting historical relics that still apply in some states of the US, just not all?

You’re confusing two different types of Good Samaritan laws: laws to protect people from liability when they help people in imminent peril; and laws requiring people to help people in imminent peril. When first you brought the topic up, you were referring to the former; now, you’ve moved to the latter. Don’t move the goalposts.

@aldiboronti

If China is “one fucked-up society” how come this is getting such airplay in that country and so many shocked comments from Chinese people? If this were normal behavior it seems to me that it wouldn’t rate the raising of a single Chinese eyebrow. The truth is of course that shocking things happen everywhere, including the US, and this isn’t an indictment of a whole nation, just a few passers-by.

This. It is arguably more important that this is becoming a major news story within China than that it happened in the first place; people do bad things everywhere.

[Arden_Ranger]

@by-tor

The story has been picked up by the BBC:
Home - BBC News

And MSNBC

[Siam_Sam]

@by-tor

The story has been picked up by the BBC:
Home - BBC News

BBC TV has been showing the video.

As for being held liable for taking someone in to the hospital, that seems fairly common over here. There have been quite a few people in Thailand – Thai and foreigner alike – who got stuck with a hefty bill by the hospital just for taking in an accident victim they’d happened across.

[King_Bobo]

I know that anecdotes do not constitute evidence - yada, yada etc.

I, as a blonde western woman, once had a broken big toe when I had recourse to visit Hong Kong. I could not have had met a more kind and obliging people - and that is just folks on the streets. Everyone I met was kind and helpful - some even went out of their way to help me find bus routes and other stuff I needed.

I love to visit Hong Kong because of this and other more than helpful folks who have made my visits spectacular.

Of course, I know nothing about the original news story, but just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents worth. This story, as China Guy says, has some problems. Damned little happens on any street or alley in China without a large crowd gathering. When I was trying to hobble aboard a ferry - I had umpteen helpers.

Something about this whole story just does not ring true with MY experience. So, that said, I am going to, pass on judgement until I get some more facts.

[Terr]

@King_Bobo

I, as a blonde western woman, once had a broken big toe when I had recourse to visit Hong Kong.

Hong Kong is not mainland China.

[jjimm]

It’s being scrutinised by the world’s media and the individuals involved have been identified and photographed - even the little girl. What extra burden of proof is required in comparison to other stories in the media?

According to Xinhua, the Cantonese broadcast was actually a Guangdong station not a Hong Kong one, so the theory of Hongkies belittling their northern neighbours is out the window.

Denying it with this much publicity is now moving into the arena of conspiracy theory. It’s unconscionable to think this could happen, but it really seems like it did. Cf my report about the diabetic woman who died on the street in Hong Kong*. Horrible, fucked up things happen all over the world - see Bystander Effect:

In April 2010 Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yax was stabbed to death after coming to the aid of a woman who was being attacked. At least twenty people walked by while he lay dying on a sidewalk in Queens.

*I too have had great experiences if having issues in Hong Kong, but horrific, inhumane things do happen everywhere for whatever reason.

[raskolnik]

There are several schools of thought on this forum
1)This is a elabaorate piece of agitprop created with CCP approval for some reason. This seems nuts as the CCP usually likes China to look GOOD like Bejing Olympics.
2)This really happened exactly as described and it means China/Chinese people are f***ed
3)This really happened and is simply an unfortunate case of the before mentioned ‘by-stander’ effect, not a reason to go and single out Chinese society.

[Ibn_Warraq]

@constanze

How is this different from US law where people are afraid to give first aid to injured people because they might be sued for malpractice?

Huh, what the fuck are you talking about?

In an some jurisdictions doctors can be sued for malpractice if they commit malpractice while helping someone, but ordinary citizens don’t have to worry about that.

Please educate yourself before posting.

[King_Bobo]

@Terr

Hong Kong is not mainland China.

You are right indeed. Hong Kong still is another different sort of society.

And, while my anecdote was in Hong Kong, it does not take away from my experiences in other parts of China (which I admittedly did not recount - sorry for that) - Still had some folk help me a whole lot. Did not seem to me that anyone was scared to step forward to help.

[China_Guy]

@KarlGauss

Well, maybe you don’t believe it, China Guy but:

a) the linked articles explain why the kid was left alone
b) she was transferred to the military hospital after receiving initial treatment at a smaller facility
c) she has been (partially) named
d) two of the drivers (the two that ran her over) have been arrested and named

Link #1

Link#2

I think you can give it a rest.

ETA: If this is staged, that kid is a damn fine actress and the FX people did a super job with the gore (spilling out in perfect timing with the trauma), i.e. it is not a fake.

It could easily be horrible reporting, as I wrote earlier. I could be wrong and it is as it appears.

I still can’t add up why Mom didn’t take the kid with her to bring in the laundry, why there was no crowd forming (which is extremely odd in China) and how someone with no money or pull could end up in the best ICU in Guangdong province. I’ll leave it at that.

[An_Gadai]

China Guy, propaganda to what end?

[raskolnik]

@China_Guy

…and how someone with no money or pull could end up in the best ICU in Guangdong province. I’ll leave it at that.

-I have to say this is certainly 100% odd. I have NO doubt somebody high up has lept on this, it’s an agitprop gold mine. Kid almost killed, almost homless old lady to the rescue. If only a foreigner with free taiwan plates has been driving.
-Yet it still piants a picture of a cruel, defective society. Why would the CCP want that image getting so much exposure?

[Scissorjack]

@tomndebb

Looks fake to me.

While much of the detail is always blurry, the area around the “kid” at the point of impact gets really fuzzy and the “body” does not appear to move the way that I would expect a real body to react to being hit. (I have hit deer and seen others hit deer and the motion of the “kid” does not look right.) Then, when the truck moves on after stopping, the “body” is thrust back by the rear wheels in a way that might be possible, but is not plausible.

You’ve seen plenty of Photoshops and can tell by the pixels, huh?

[even_sven]

The powers that be, now and then, churn up a little story to build up a little recreational outrage. This serves two purposes. First, it keeps outrage from being turned on them. China has a lot of discontent sitting just below the surface, and things like this allow an outlet for it that doesn’t lead to questioning the Party’s right to rule. Secondly, it tells a little story that China’s problems are from some kind of moral decline or breakdown in values- and that’s great! The Party, of course, is the answer to moral decline and breakdown in values.

Conspiracy theories are absolutely appropriate when talking about China. A lot of conspiracy theory level stuff actually does go on.

[constanze]

@straight_man

You’re confusing two different types of Good Samaritan laws: laws to protect people from liability when they help people in imminent peril; and laws requiring people to help people in imminent peril. When first you brought the topic up, you were referring to the former; now, you’ve moved to the latter. Don’t move the goalposts.

Okay, then from adifferent source:

There are several versions of good Samaritan laws.

Some laws still protect only medically trained rescuers, while others offer protection to any good Samaritan. The Code of Alabama (Section 6-5-332) restricts protection to trained rescuers or employees of the public education system, unless the victim is suffering a cardiac arrest. That means any victim of a motor vehicle accident in the state of Alabama, who isn’t already dead, won’t be helped by a lay rescuer unless that lay rescuer wants to take a chance on liability for any mistakes.

Or thiscase in California, where a woman helping an accident victim by pulling her out of the car was not only sued, but the court found her guilty (by ruling medical help was not necessary, hence no protection).

But since California re-wrote their laws since then, I guess 2008 counts as “ancient history” and all US citizens are rushing now to aid all accident victims.

It’s also not like we had a thread just last year about whether to call an ambulance for a teenage victim, and several Dopers advising against that for different reasons. But sure, everybody in the US calls an ambulance for accident victims because the US has such a caring population. (What happens at the hospital if the victim doesn’t have insurance is not the concern of the caring population).

But of course, I’m only beating on the US for old historical incidents and don’t know anything … I know, I know, I shouldn’t get upset any longer about the double standard of this board.

[shijinn]

@even_sven

The powers that be, now and then, churn up a little story to build up a little recreational outrage. …

but this story points more to the failure of the government providing a secure society with a dependable justice system. the mores of a sheeple is shaped by the fence it lives in.