One baby policy sanctions?

Uh, this is the place to safely display one’s ingnorance, right? Ok, help us on this: What happens to a woman or a family in One Child Policy China if she finds herself in the family way with already one healthy child on board? What is the punishment?

She would be strongly encouraged to have an abortion. Almost forced to have one. If she has the second child she can lose her health benefits and such. Also her employer will pressure her to have an abortion because the factories get rewards from the government if thier employees only have one child each. In fact, the women have to get a special card from thier government/employer just to have thier first child, and there is a long waiting list. In the cities, each block has a leader, usually and old woman, who makes sure that all of the women on that block dont try to have children they aren’t allowed to have. The families of these women won’t even support them. It is “patriotic” to have only once child.

That is about all I can remember from the China video they showed us at school. I think it might have been a taped episode of Nova.

There is a book written by a lady Chinese Doctor who fled here because she became PG in China by accident and was not allowed to have her child. She bore the baby in the hospital where she worked and they took it from her and killed it. They have certain employees who do the killing. I cannot remember the name of the book, but it also showed up some years back in Readers Digest.

In addition, if you’re part of the inner-circle elite people, usually most requirements are waived and you can do whatever the hell you want.

And if the child manages to survive, it is an official “non-person”. No schooling, health care,government job or housing. Ever.

Too bad no one hijacked the “Communism” thread with some of this glowing praise for communist China.

I believe half of what has been posted so far is made up and the other half exagerated. I would ask people posting to support what they say because I am very skeptical.

>> There is a book written by a lady Chinese Doctor who fled here because she became PG in China by accident and was not allowed to have her child. She bore the baby in the hospital where she worked and they took it from her and killed it. They have certain employees who do the killing. I cannot remember the name of the book, but it also showed up some years back in Readers Digest.

OK, this would be just as illegal in China as it is in the USA. If Reader’s Digest says this is what they do in China, it is lying. That some case might have happened I have no doubt. We have also heard some American girls throwing away their newborn babies into dumpsters but that does not make it legal or part of American culture. To say “they have employees who do the killing” is just ludicrous. Come on!

Please, let us try to not make up stuff. Most of these posts are rumors with no foundation.

I am no expert on this by any means and I am willing to be corrected. I have travelled to China every year for the last few years for several weeks at a time and I have friends there.

The one child policy is a very complex thing which cannot be summarized in a few short paragraphs. It is full of exceptions (for all minority groups for example). It is hardly enforced in the country and it is more enforced in big cities with women who work in factories etc. Enforcement is much more relaxed lately. Policy is for strong incentives not to have a second child, but NOT forced abortions or anything of that sort. Yes, overzealous bosses twist arms too far and force abortions but this is not government policy. Yes, some women have killed their firstborn if it was a girl. No, this is NOT common, it is the exception.

Please, there are plenty of articles in the news and elsewhere to find out about this. To say these things about China is like to say the USA is a country where white folks drag blacks behind their pickup trucks. Please!

Those who have read my postings in other threads know how much I despise communism but the end does not justify the means. We do not need to lie about it and make it look worse than it is.

Also, China has come a long way from the Cultural Revolution so what was true 25 years ago is not true today (any more than Mccarthyism in America).

I would welcome more informed posts on this topic as China is a topic of my interest but please, let us not make stuff up.

I’m not ‘making up the stuff.’ I read the book in the 80s. Shortly after it showed up in Readers Digest. I recall reading other articles about forced abortions and child killing in China. In one war with China, they did not have enough weapons, so they threw the front lines against enemy positions and when they were slaughtered, those without weapons behind them, grabbed up their guns and continued the assault. The Chinese government has long been known to do as it chooses.

In the abortions, parents were stupidly given a choice on first children. If the child was a male, it was often kept as males are considered worth something. Girl babies were mostly exterminated before birth. As a result, China now has a radically out of whack male to female ratio and wife stealing is not uncommon. /They steal a girl, take her way far out into the country and sell her to a womanless man/.

Don’t kid yourself. What is legal and illegal in China often blends together. They have a major surplus of people and given a chance, the government would gladly shove a few million into war just to get rid of them. They have done it before.

Skribbler, it may surprise you to know that not everything you read is true. I challenge you to come up with any credible support for that, not just “I read a book”. Reader’s Digest is NOT a credible source. Read my posts in other threads and you will see I am as anticommunist as you can be, but the facts are the facts. I challenge you to support your assertion that it is true that in China they have people in the hospitals who will kill the newborns like that. It is ludicrous and it is NOT true. I have been to China and I can assure you it is not true. Do you want me to ask my Chinese friends to weigh in?

dragonlady, I would also question your assertion and would like to see some support. I simply do not believe it is true.

Since I am asking people to provide some objective information rather than just rumors they heard, here is something I fished out of my own files. A Washington Post article on this topic.

For goodness sake, we are not talking about some obscure topic. We are talking about a country which is there online. Go to any chat room and ask any Chinese person.

For what it’s worth, this issue is a major plot point in Tom Clancy’s new novel The Bear and the Dragon. Clancy is admittedly no friend of China’s communist regime so his information may be biased.

I find it hard to believe that I find myself in the position of having to explain the Chinese government is not as bad as somebody else makes it out to be because usually I am the one explaining it is worse than others imagined. Check my recent posts on the thread about communism and the thread about Cuba

While we are with this topic I will add from my observations of China that I believe it is the country where I have seen the children being most loved (maybe due to the once child policy). Every child I saw was well cared for and obviously very loved by parents and extended family. I did not see any child abuse. The children were always well dressed and you could see they were the joy of their family. This to me says a lot about a culture. Yet these kids were never spoiled. They were always well behaved and respectful. When they saw me they would say “hello!” and always laughed when I answered in Chinese “Nihao!”.

This is in sharp contrast with DC where almost every time I go to the supermarket I see some fat woman yelling at her kids or slapping them around. I never saw such thing in China. I am not saying it does not happen, just that in my many weeks there I did not see it happen once.

Of course Skribbler’s right. Also in China, people are so poor that they each only have one spoon. You get it when you’re born, and if you lose it you starve to death, unless somebody dies and wills you their spoon.

Greg, you’ve been reading the Reader’s Digest haven’t you? :wink:

The truth is what they get at birth is a pair of chopsticks so when you lose one, you find another person in the same situation and you feed together, one bite for you one for me. The problem is none can let go of their chopstick for fear of losing it so feeding themselves using a chopstick in each person’s hand is very slow and time consuming. This explains the low productivity. It also explains the low birth rate as they are too exhausted for sex.

Little Nemo,

Regardless of whether or not Mr. Clancy is biased, his grasp of anything outside the military is extremely shaky. I personally laughed myself silly reading his descriptions of life in Japan in Debt of Honor.

I would be very cautious about taking his non-military info as truth. I’m also not so certain about his military info, for that matter.

As for Reader’s Digest, good lord. I would double-check their facts if they told me Christmas would be in December this year.

–sublight.

sailor-
Thanx for holding our feet to the fire. I for one would like a more credible source of info than Reader’s Digest or Clancy’s fiction.
Interesting to see what will surface. BTW, I like to read Clancy, but I wouldn’t use him for reference material other than his military knowledge. I understand he is irrefutable on that subject, even has some security cleaance I am told.

“clearance”

sorry

I was in China a mere two weeks after Tienanman Square happened in 1989 and boy was that good for clearing out all the tourists!

We had a lot of questions about the one child system, and they simply told us that the government strongly encouraged you not to have a second child. One exception, of course, is if you have a multiple birth (twins, triplets, etc.) in which case you have the government’s blessing. In fact, I think they unofficially recognize such things as ‘good luck’. As a result, all the Chinese herbists sell all kinds of herbal fertility concoctions to make multi-births more likely. Whether they work is another matter entirely.

We also asked about the killing of female children and they had told us that 1) females were no longer considered ‘inferior’ in any of the big cities 2) the government frowns on the activity and 3) while it may occur rarely, it generally only happens out in the country. I got the impression it doesn’t happen much more than out here.

In fact, the only thing that even seemed inherently wierd when we were there (the big cities are very Westernized) was the public execution (by firing squad) of a drug dealer, outside of Xian.

I’m certainly not going to claim that Clancy’s information is unimpeachable, on military subjects or otherwise. In fact, I for one, have serious reservations about his knowledge of the military. Clancy seems to be under the delusion that military hardware will perform under battle conditions just the way the defense contractors advertise it will. That to me proves Clancy never saw combat.

Yarster, AFAIK executions in China are not public. Did you witness one? I was also under this mistaken impression just because it is so easy to make assumptions. Some time ago I started a thread about Public Executions in China but it turned out I was mistaken. The photo was of the trial which was public and the condemned were led away to their execution out of town and out of view.

I would also point out that China is changing very fast. To describe it as a land where baby newborn girls are killed would be similar to describing America as a land where homosexuals are killed.

In any case and related to the main object of this thread, you have to be careful about unchecked facts that you have heard and “everybody knows they are true” because very often they are very false. I spend a lot of time abroad denying misconceptions about America for the same reason: people have heard the stereotypes so often they cannot believe they are not true.

While I strongly dislike communism and any form of coercion by undemocratic governments I have to say population control is very necessary and has allowed China to improve their standard of living. My view is that we should be encouraging (not forcing but encouraging) birth control in all the thrid world countries that are multiplying like rabbits because it only leads to famine.

And getting your historical information from novels and from movies is always a bad idea.

I totally agree. I don’t want people to be coerced, but on the other hand I think all the moral and cultural objections to making contraception available to EVERY COUPLE IN THE WORLD and STRONGLY ENCOURAGING THAT OPTION, should be simply
steamrollered. Nobody’s religion or culture gives them the
right to wreck my world.

Speaking from California:

[ul]
[li]Population growth rate = Sri Lanka’s[/li][li]Population density = 140% of Europe’s[/li][li]Approximate population now = 33 million[/li][li]Projected population, 2025 = 49 million[/li][li]Median home price, L.A. County = 208,000[/li][/ul]