One baby policy sanctions?

Well, the OP never returned and those who were saying babies get killed in China never came back or offered any support for their assertions so I guess we can hijack the thread for the subject of the population explosion.

This is the way I see it. Only a very ignorant and stupid person will say this planet can sustain any number of people, no matter how large. I will not even bother discussing this topic with anyone defending that view. So, we shall agree there has to be a limit. We can disagree on where it is but we shall agree there is one. If you are the type who is comfortable living in a tiny apartment in Manhattan or Tokio your limit will probably be higher than if you prefer to live in the open country. In any case The entire world needs to come to an agreement on this.

To say everyone should have absolute freedom to keep on reproducing at will is suicide. Your action of making babies has repercussions on the rest of the world, and I do not mean only tour immediate world. I do not believe anyone has any right to unlimited reproduction for the simple reason that it is not viable. This is not my opinion. This is a fact. The human race cannot continue to multiply at this rate indefinitely.

Will some people be unhappy when they are strongly discouraged from having children? No doubt about it. Too bad. We live in a world that requires these things and the sooner we assume them, the better.

I will give you an example. The Philippines have a culture of having many children and yet they are unable to feed them. The rest of the world sends economic aid and absorbs their surplus of population in the form of imported cheap labor.

I would suggest the economic aid be linked to definite steps to get the country on a viable economic culture and stop this crazy demographic explosion. Is that contrary to their culture? Probably. But they are part of the world and their problems affect us. They sould not expect us to keep sending help while absorbing the population they cannot feed.

If they want to retain this culture of big families and poverty, I say fine, but don’t come to us looking for help. You are on your own. You should not ask other cultures to pay the price of your own ineptitude.

Cultures need to change and adapt to the times. What was true 100 years ago is no longer true today. Western culture has assumed concepts like recycling and conservation. What is wrong with expecting other cultures to do the same?

I take it for granted that sooner or later there will be a worldwide policy of population maintenance. Probably with education and a good standard of living this will not be a problem. Most of the developed world already has a very low birth rate. But the urge to reproduce is quite strong (especially in women) and it is possible that some type of incentives must be instituted that would discourage having children.

I see nothing wrong with this. What I object to is some bureaucrat in Beijing telling me how many children I can have. But I see no reason why a democratic society cannot discourage me from having children if it considers too many children would place an unwelcome burden on the rest of us who are already here.

I also have no objection whatsoever to developed countries exerting their influence over less developed countries. We use our commerce to put pressure on China to improve their human rights record because we believe this is a good thing for us and for them. I think we should also use the same kind of pressure to encourage certain countries to lower their demographic increase. They are free to reject the suggestion but they should not expect us to keep feeding the children they make and cannot feed themselves.

Anyway, it’s just my humble opinion.

sailor, that sounds suspiciously like a Great Debate. Feel free to open a thread there.

I’m late to the party, but I just wanted to say nice job, Sailor. As someone interested in China, I too am tired of the “foot-binding, baby-killing” stereotype.

Well, I’ll start y’all off with the shocker, a recent news story that I remembered upon reading this thread: Chinese kill baby to enforce birth rule. You’ll note that the story says:

If China is shaken, then the incident described is likely not indicative of the norm.

World Tibet Network News has a story from just a few weeks ago, 3. China trying alternatives to one-child policy: US official (AFP) with news on this subject.

Something called oneworld.net has an article called POPULATION-CHINA: Changes in One-Child Policy Emerging that includes an interesting note about ‘double only-child’ families.

Whoo! Here’s another from oneworld, RETURN TO THE DYING ROOMS

And there’s a report from the U.S. Embassy: China’s One Child Policy, Two Child Reality

Here’s an article, China’s One Child Policy in 1997, on the subject.

An article at the Australian newsite The Age addresses the policy: The sterilisation of China

An apparently Christian website, Media House International, has a page here that details a version of the polcy

An anti-abortion group, Human Life Alliance, has a page on the subject.

I can not speak to the veracity of any of the above.

The book you’re referring to may be the one here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060976144
Sounds like a similar story.

Yes, some people believe that the one-child policy is not the driving force behind the population plummet in China (I know offhand of one critic who believes that way at http://www.overpopulation.com/one_child.html )
However…that doesnt mean that some women are not subjected to coercion/pressure.
There was a hearing a few years ago that can be viewed here:
Forced Abortion and Sterilization in China: The View From the Inside

Here are several incidents that have made the news:
http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/2000/08/24/timfgnfar01001.html

…And some articles on China’s treatment of Tibetan women:
http://www.tibet.com/Women/twdiirrpt.html
http://www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/1993/12/23_2.html

Please, let’s try to AVOID a debate on the merits of population control…and focus on the question at hand: How does China treat women who violate its policies?

I did not say women are not subjected to corecion or pressure. In fact I acknowledged they are. I was denying the stereotypes without basis like the hospitals routinely killing newborn babies.

I think the OP has been sufficiently answered. Thanks both for the links. It seems though that often people post and then lose interest and never return.

spathiphyllum-
Thanx for the links. I had recently heard of the drowning case you researched. Was hoping someone could furnish proof. BTW- Congress just voted for permanent trade status for these heathen bastards. We should be proud! Greed will always prevail!

Heathen bastards? My that’s an encouraging opinion. So what is the problem with permanant normal trade relations with China? You’d rather that they stayed poor and exported excess labor via boats to the USA?