Because China treats foreign POC so well?
Gods know. Have you ever seen some of the Chinese commercials that have black or colored (usually Indian or Pakistani) people in them? :eek: Again, though, neither you or I are the ethnic minorities that I was referring to with that.
At any rate, I do apologize again for the strawman.
I’m not interested, particularly, with the goal of changing Chinese behavior. I think the level of trade and interaction we have with China has been injurious, is injurious, and the two “great lies” that sold it to us as a people have both been proven false. One was the more economic ties would make China a friend and moderate its authoritarian tendencies, that has not born fruit. Frankly I don’t care on an esoteric level what sort of government China has or how China behaves internally, but when we’re told we should pauper our working class to enrich our capital-owning class through tighter economic ties with China and this is given as justification for it, then we should seriously question the legitimacy of this association given that’s simply not happening.
I think it’s outright beneficial for us to have much reduced economic interactions with China–period. I don’t speculate on what consequences this will have for China as a country or its behaviors, and frankly I don’t care. I never advocated a Cuban style embargo, I advocated for severing over-close ties and raising trade barriers. Such trade barriers used to be common place and the world economy existed with such high trade barriers for generations. It’s only the modern globalist who seeks to defend the order they created as inevitable, inalterable, and essential–when history shows it is none of those things.
The world economy “existing” and being the size that it is today are two different things.
The world economy today is huge because productivity has grown everywhere, but also many formerly poor countries in East Asia particularly, but also the Middle East, East Europe, South and Central Asia and even parts of Africa have become wealthy consumer societies themselves. By and large, trade has made us all wealthier.
If not, how is it possible that these new economies could have sprung up at the same time as the US and European economies continue to grow?
As someone who travels internationally a lot, one thing you never get used to about the US is that even though it is a wealthy country, you see an awful lot of poverty. There’s nothing quite like it in the rest of the developed world.
But you’re laying the blame in the wrong place if you think that’s because of globalization.
I continue to be boggled by your position. Did the GOP delay its response just like the CCP did? Yes. But with key differences: (a) Unlike CCP, the GOP knew how contagious and dangerous the disease was and still delayed its response. And (b), CCP’s China did get the disease under control, at least for now. OTOH GOP’s America is on its way to become one of the most severely hurt countries on the planet.
Look: We know you hate the CCP. We get that! :rolleyes: Is the CCP more evil than any country in Europe outside Russia and perhaps Turkey? Definitely. But … Is the GOP also more evil than any country in Europe outside Russia and perhaps Turkey? Absolutely. YOU acknowledge that, and THEN we may join you in condemnation of China. If you lack the gumption to admit that GOP evil and GOP incompetence are on a par with CCP evil and CCP incompetence, then it’s hard to take your views seriously: You just seem like an eccentric gadfly.
If I may junior-mod a bit, this thread is titled “China’s new place in the world after the pandemic is over,” not “the Republican Party’s new place in the world.”
Is the GOP fucking evil? Well, you’ll find 70-80 percent of posters on this forum agreeing that, for sure. But we’ve had numerous threads about that. Let’s keep this thread China-focused.
Agreed.
US companies are going to find ways to cut costs, and they’re going to look for regimes that will play ball with them. Global trade with China has been good for Chinese and I’d argue it’s been good for Americans whether they realize it or not. It wasnt the CCP that decided to create tax and economic policies that create wealth inequality, which would exist whether we were doing business with China or Vietnam or some other country.
I would argue that had it not been for China, we’d still be digging our sorry asses out of the financial crisis of 2008-9. Chinese investors swooped into buy distressed properties in the states hit hardest by the real estate collapse. They sent international students here by the shit ton, which helped some colleges and universities at a time when Americans were starting to forego higher ed. They also had one of the few stable economies at a time when most other global economies were contracting.
Well, some countries (like Japan) are just really good at hiding poverty out of public view. But yes, in terms of providing essential social and medical services for the indigent, the US is basically at the bottom of industrialized nations, because the dominant policies view impoverishment as a personal failing rather than an unfortunate circumstance. The opioid crisis is, at its core, a symptom of poverty and disillusionment in the face of an economy and employment market that is changing and leaving people behind with little support and no direction to retrain for different work.
And while this has been a problem of the “working class” as factory jobs have gone away (some overseas but others just permanently lost to advances in automation), the automation of intellectual labor is going to start affecting more and more of middle class people who assumed that their white collar jobs are more-or-less secure. When you can have an automated legal search system do the same work as half a dozen junior legal associates in a fraction of the time and virtually no errors, the already weak demand for law school graduates is going to plummet, and expect to see the same trend for nearly every vocational area except medicine and other fields where ‘touch labor’ has a real value or necessity.
Stranger
Well, let me break it down for you Barney style then. You seem to be wanting to score points off of me and under the misapprehension I’m defending the GOPs/Trump’s/US Politicians. I’m not. What the GOP/Trump did has definitely with a capital D hurt the US. What the CCP did hurt THE WORLD. GET IT? No, of course not, because you think this is crazy XT ranting about the CCP and defending Trump, or gods know what you are on about. Do I hate the CCP? Abso-fucking-lutely I do. It’s shocking that you are defending them…well, shocking in a mock shocking sort of way. But this is bigger than another political pissing contest to score points off of the other side. I get that you can’t see that or look beyond it and that you want to spark some sort of pile on of scorn heaped on me. Hell, I expect it especially after the threads I’ve started, because it cuts to the heart of many closely held beliefs what I’m saying.
If you want to attack my positions against the CCP, feel free. Please don’t try and create stupid, silly strawmen that I’m defending Trump et al however. I say this knowing that it seems to be the in thing now, coming from all directions at me, as if I’ve been SUCH a GOP/Trump supporter over the years. 
EVERYONE calm down.
This thread is in regard to China’s place in the world. All the attacks on other posters based on presuming what they believe or attributing their statements to ideas that one has chosen to attribute to them–even and especially when it is not based in actual statements they have made–is taking this thread off the rails.
Stick to actual facts or fact-based statements and leave the personal shots (especially the rude ones) for The BBQ Pit. Any further adjectives denigrating the statements or the projected beliefs of another poster will will be Warned.
[ /Moderating ]
As a major exporter to the world, especially the USA, I’m still not sure how China would escape such a depression.
The USA currently spends about 3x what China does.
They also don’t currently have the same ability that the US does to project that power.
If China wanted to buy 51% of Google, why couldn’t they have just done it already?
China’s place in the world in the year 2050?
Owner.
Not a chance. The costs involved with caring for/repressing more than a billion people and defending itself from some powerful neighbors will make this impossible. Chinas emerging middle class will demand services.
In related news:
Japan is going to pay some of its companies to leave China. And some American companies are leaving as well.
China is not stable. Watch for dissolution and many local warlords and foreign alliances. It’ll be bloody.
I wish there was somewhere I could bet on that not happening.
Domestically in China, life is pretty much back to normal at this point.
While there is plenty of anger about the government’s early cover up, the take home message for most Chinese at this point is that we got through this because 1: The government has absolute power to take extreme measures and 2: A culture of obedience
It’s about as far from fragmenting right now as I can imagine.
Internationally the picture is more complex.
In the short term yes I see many of China’s alliances and contracts being broken. There will be a lot of animus directed towards China, and some governments may take rash actions.
But within say 3-4 years max, IMO, most likely everything will be back to where it was, and coronavirus will just be a punchline.
The thing you have to appreciate, is China is not just a manufacturer of goods – it’s also the biggest market. Many of the “unicorn” (billion dollar) startups operate only in China. And you’d be surprised at the list of American brands that make most of their revenue in China.
There are plenty of things I don’t like about the current US government. But if I’m running an international business, there’s no way in hell I boycott the United States; that would be madness. And the same is true about China, perhaps more so going forwards.
As Coronavirus Fades in China, Nationalism and Xenophobia Flare
Article notes that many Africans have been subjected to discrimination in China; also notes that Chinese nationalism and “vitriol risks isolating China internationally just as the Communist Party seeks to use the pandemic to promote itself as a global leader.”
It is very clear.
I disagree. China is not going to change in it’s status or position that much. They will continue to be a world leader and will outpace the US to be the world’s largest economy (along with India).
The U.S. is such a conundrum. On the one hand, they have some of the brightest people on the planet and the most advanced technologies, but at the same time, the majority of the
country is still somewhat low class / struggling, or hardworking (to put it nicely) and old infrastructure and systems as evidenced by the handling of covid19 etc. They also have a continuing massive influx of immigrants (some high skilled, highly educated, but mostly still 3rd world), and America looks more like a 3rd world country in most parts now than the most advanced country. They really have fallen behind because I remember when I was young, America was like this place everyone wanted and dreamed of living in or attaining, but now all these other countries (east asia, have surpassed, exceeded America in so many aspects).
Many countries including China are becoming so futuristic it’s scary… When I look at America, I still see a lot of the old days for me like the 80s and 90s and I love that. I love that they still
have really old neighborhoods with ghettos and blue collar lifestyle where parents still don’t mind letting their kids roll around in the dirt and climb trees. Not so in the advanced Asian nations. It’s so sterile now, it’s all just digital living.
It’s starting to become too “unhuman”-like. The only way I can compare it is like this: America is like having a natural looking beauty on cover of the magazine and Asia is like having a 5000% over airbrushed beauty on the cover of the magazine. Some like this “perfect but fake” beauty and hate the “ugly but natural beauty” while others call natural beauty real beauty and the perfect fake beauty just artificial, superficial, and manufactured look.
Asia (mostly east) is all about manufactured appearances and perceptions while America is still very much “this is me, love it or hate it, I don’t give a f*ck”).