Back when I was in High School, I was an avid practitioner of Lama ( A form of Chinese Gung Fu or long arm boxing). This was for me a very accurate and effective form of self defense against most other forms of fighting. For a little while I had experimented with Japanese Karate and found that Chinese Gung Fu was far more useful and effective (for myself). For those of you that have practiced or experienced a practitioner of both Japanese Karate and Chinese Gung Fu, which do you think is the most effective method of fighting and why?
I practice what is basicaly kung fu, but it’s a Persian style rather than Chinese, so I’ll play. Our particular style (Toas Kung Fu) is a combination of supple defence and explosive offence. For example, when someone throws a punch/kick at me, I will (with a loose body) side step the blow, remaining within striking distance, and simultaniously avoid an atack and strike at the same time. All of our techniques are disigned to be used in this manner. Striking and avoiding attacks are simultanious actions and when I spar, I strive to stay within arms reach the entire time (also our kicks are such that they can be executed from arms length). I think that this strategy of fighting is superior to the “in and out” method that I see in most tournament fighters and to the “block then strike” techniques of many traditional styles.
You are going to have to be more specific.
What styles of gung-fu? Northern Shaolin, southern Shaolin, wing-tsun, hung gar, tai-chi-chuan, ba gua, hsing-i - there are hundreds.
What styles of Japanese karate? Wado-ryu, kyokushinkai, shotokan, goju - ditto.
I have been told that lima lama was Polynesian.
All things being equal, I would match a kyokushinkai or Ebihara stylist against any striker in the world, but that is training rather than technique.
YMMV, obviously.
Regards,
Shodan
I’ve studied Shotokan, Kenpo, and some grappling (although I ain’t the best at the latter) and I’ve got to say they’rethe most practical styles I’ve seen. Hit hard and fast enough, and no one can dodge it effectively. Then, when they’re off balance, give them a beating so hard they don’t get up to hit you again. It also doesn’t require the kind of flexibility and agility of many other styles (cough Kung Fu cough). I’m not looking to win a tournament here, just smack around some thug who wants my hide.
In general, I have found the Austrian martial art Glock-fu to be vasty superior to both Gung Fu or Karate; a person with a couple weeks of training in Glock-fu can easily defeat even grand masters with decades of experience in Karate or Gung Fu.
Only from a distance. At close range a knife is even more dangerous than a gun.
Anyone who is a master in one system would supplement with additional training where the original system is usually weak. Thus we have jujitsu practictioners and judoka incorporating kickboxing, and Chinese boxers supplementing their training with a wrestling or grappling program. So a system that incorporates a blend of striking, bearehanded and or weapons; blocking and dodging; counter moves; wrestling and grappling; and especially improvisation, would make one useful in practically any situation. That was what Bruce Lee was advocating.
Commando and police force fighting systems utilize these aspects for their training. But the intensity and urgency that goes with that training may not be for some people. What is important is to find what is comfortable according to your build and philosophy.
Well, I’ve studied various Japanese and Okanawan styles (Shotokan, Shutakan, Kempo-jitsu, Judo and Akido) and I’ve found that Kempo-jitsu is the best for actual fighting. Its basically a combination of the striking aspects of Shotokan (without the heavy formality and rigid stances) combined with the throws, hold down and mat work of Judo and Akido.
To me, no style is ‘complete’ unless it emphasizes actual combat techniques that are useful in actual fighting. That means it needs to take hand to hand combat from the general sparing, through grappling, throws, hold downs, etc, all the way to mat work where most fights end up…and train you in techniques in all those aspects to be a really effective system. Emphasis shouldn’t be on any one aspect over the others, but should be on the flow of a combat situation from one to the next.
My experience with the Chinese styles (both Northern and Southern) are that they emphasize sparing, but don’t really train for the total fight. I could be wrong as I’ve never actually studied ANY of the Chinese styles (I have studies a bit in some of the Korean styles), but I’ve found while sparing various practitioners of Gung Fu that they don’t have any idea what to do when the fight gets to the grappling mat work stage…which all REAL fights eventually devolve too, unless you get lucky and knock someone out. SOmething thats been fairly rare for me in the various bar fights and such I’ve been involve in.
(btw, there was a thread about this a few months ago that you might want to look up…a lot of these same points came out. I wish I remembered who started that thread or what the title was now)
-XT
the most effective method of fighting is to know your opponent.
observe your opponent’s strength and weaknesses, reload the game then take him out.
Agreed, and I’ll add my thought that cross-training even in a style that complements rather than enhances is beneficial as well. I teach Taekwondo, but we also do groundfighting (based on BJJ), joint manipulation (based on aikido), sticks (based on Escrima), etc.
I tell my students it’s like college. TKD is the major; the others are electives that make you a well-rounded martial artist.
I’m a Shodan in Okinawan Goju-ryu Karate. Goju-ryu has many similarities with some Chinese styles. Even several of our Kata have origins in China. Goju-ryu also uses grappling techniques, circular blocks, ‘trapping hands’ and other techniques similar to Kung-fu.
Other Okinawan styles are ‘harder’, in that they are more linear and use less leverage and more direct power. Mainland styles tend to be harder still, and more formal.
I hold instructor’s rank in Korean (hapkido), Okinowan (Chino-te. Shorin Ryu) and Chinese (modern ecclectic, but with roots in Hun Gar). While I have been “retired” for about 5 years, I used to actively seek cross-training with practitioners from other styles. My considered opinion, based on being punched, kicked, and thrown by a large assortment of folks is . . . styles are vastly overrated.
Now, I don’t say that all styles are equal. Many styles have different areas of focus: sport, spirituality, overall fitness, etc. But the fact is that even a “sport” system can produce a devastating street fighter, and even a “street” system can produce a black belt without the proper blend of skills and spirit to be truly formidable. As it turns out, if I had to pick two individuals that I felt were the most accomplished and complete fighters with whom it was my privilege to train one would be a Persian “kung fu” stylist (who taught no forms and used methods as “hard” as any Kyokushinkai) and the other was an Okinowan/Japanese practitioner (Shorin Ryu of the Soken branch + Aikido). What these two had most in common was that their personalities/natural reactions blended seamlessly into their arts. And that, really, became the heart of my standard response to the ubiquitous “what school should I choose” question.
[ul][li]Some schools are just bad.[/li][li]Apart from bad schools, any school can develop your basic tools for a couple of years. Find one that is convenient to you, makes training fun for you, and will not be reckless with your health and well-being.[/li][li]If you want to train seriously after year 2-3, do some serious self-study and find a course of development that makes best use of your instinctive reactions and natural tendencies. This may or may not be best accomplished within a single school or style.[/ul][/li]
And for goodness’ sake make sure you understand the power of a handgun.
Can you back this up? It’s a pretty fantastic claim.
Johnny Bravo, RandomLetters tongue was firmly in cheek. *Glock-fu * = Gun-fu (whipping out a pistol on a would-be opponent from a distance).
You are right! These are some more specific details about it. Its been years since I’ve practiced this, but it’s something I still enjoy reading about.
HERE is some more information most of you may find interesting if not useful as well
heh I can’t believe he fell for that one…
:smack:
I agree with Clothahump JKD or MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) is the way to go – for self defense.
A poor analogy, but if you want to be a good cook in any situation, do you a) spend 5 years perfecting your french soufle, or b) learn how to slice, dice, boil, braise, roast, fry and cook dishes from around the world… etc.
Principles > Techniques
I know some fantastically tough black belts, I also know some rugby players who would beat them in a bar brawl. However the Rugby Player would never Grade as a white belt… 
The best martial art is the one that teaches you to avoid fighting and aggression. That was the first thing I learned in Karate.
Run-Fu !!!
is the best and most effective.
Agreed. But when the situation is escalated beyond the verbal and into the physical, and evasion is not an option, you need to know how to end the fight quickly.
Obviously staying out of jail should be a priority… right behind not ending up a Bloody PulpTM.
walking away is not always an option.