Chinese medicine, the straight dope, please.

Well, Ray, I have read the report of Cecil on acupuncture. What do you make of his conclusion?

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For me Cecil seems to leave the door open on acupuncture by 30 degrees, considering the totality of his assessment.

However, acupuncture is a part of Chinese medicine, not the whole. Has Cecil done also an assessment of the whole of Chinese medicine, or likewise the herbal component which is I think the biggest one?

I confess not to have read a lot of the materials available on the net about Chinese medicine – owing to my, forgive me, lazy attitude of regularly looking for short but pithy accounts.

Does anyone here know of studies where a substantial number of subjects who have benefited from Chinese medicine are continually monitored, to observe how long the cure for them lasts, what regime of medication and follow-ups they keep to, and what further improvement or deterioration they experience in the course of let’s say ten years?

That kind of studies should be most instructive.

Susma Rio Sep

On balance, I agree with bizzwire; I don’t buy this ‘different paradigm’ claim. We’re all the same species, and if something works, it works by the same pharmacological principles as Western medicine. Pharmacology is, I think, the most promising area of traditional Chinese medicine, where (as with Western folk medicine) I’m sure that proper trials will continue to show that some trad herbal remedies have a real effect. A good example is the important new anti-malarial drug artemisinin, based on the traditional qinghaosu. This is now being well-studied (see Google references).

I do not think that it so much as to whether or not the paradigm is different, as much as what you are willing to accept. Cecil’s answer on the the accupuncture :“Translation: Don’t blame acupuncture, blame the test. These guys can rationalize all they like, but I bet when they go in for a root canal the only needle they want to see is a shot of novocaine.” does not say that the treatment does not work, all that it says is that it does not prduce a reliable result.

Think about it this way. When you get Western medicine, you are getting a specified amount each and every time. Each pill/treatment has the same amount of treatment in it. Compare this to “Chinese Medicine” where it is dependant on unpurified components, you can begin to see what the lapse in the studies are. Each and every plant is going to give out a specific amount of “medicine” that is not the same amount present in another plant. Thus you have the potential for overdose with one plant and underdose in another.

Variation in drugs is not benifical. Most antibiotics for example require a specific dose for a period of time to effectively combat infection, hence why when you take an antibiotic you do not just take all the pills at once and say that is that. Also, there are effects that occur with overdosing and underdosing. In antibiotics, underdoses will not kill the infection, merely lead to increased resistance to the medicine, overdosing will kill “natural” flora/fauna in your body, causing you to have diarreha (sp?) and problems digesting food. In extreme cases, this can lead to even more serious infection. I don’t have the link, but it is thought that most of the organisms that live on us are there to “take uyp space”. Basically we let something benign live there so that something dangerous does not.

Back to Variation in medicine: Variation in medicinal amounts is unacceptable and thus why the little message on the “Western Medicine” saying to take it on a regular schedule and typically not to double doses. Also, remember the studies of St Johns Wort that showed elevated levels could be dangerous? The “Chinese Medicine” does not have a strict control of doses, therefor you can not show that A effects B with certainty. And of course, if you were to process the herbs, it would be “Western Medicine.”

My thought is, it seems to have potentially benificial results, but there is no reason to go running for it. It can cause more damage than good, so ask your doctor before you do anything. It is all that you need, to get a cold, go to a “Chinese Medicine Man” , have him give you an herb that interacts with your blood pressure meds, birth control, aspirin, etc., and leaves you in the hospital with complications or even death. I am not saying that it is bad, but you need to weigh the risks with a professional. Would you change the oil type in your car unless you were a professional or have professional knowledge/collusion? Unless you have a spare car, I assume not. And since I don’t have a spare body, I am not willing to risk it with mine. Although wouldn’t it be cool if we did have spare bodies?

From outward appearances, the difference between psychosis, lying, and changing your mind is nil.

But, since you wanted a review of Chinese medicine, check out:

Book Review: Will the Real Qi Please Stand Up?

Acupuncture, Magic, and Make-Believe

Magical Thinking in Complementary and Alternative Medicine

Traditional Medicine and Pseudoscience in China: A Report of the Second CSICOP Delegation (Part 1)

Traditional Medicine and Pseudoscience in China: A Report of the Second CSICOP Delegation (Part 2)

The last link concludes:

So, there you go.