It was mentioned in the Fortune Cookie thread that those were probably invented in the US about 100 years ago.
Are any of the dishes we are familiar with in Chinese Restaurants in the US really Chinese, or were they all made for American tastes?
I don’t have a cite, but I heard that “chop-suey” was also created in San Francisco by Chinese immigrants.
I was out to lunch with my co-workers yesterday, and a Vietnamese woman I work with who had been to China said that American Chinese food is better than Chinese Chinese food.
Funny, my wife just ran out to grab Chinese take out and while I was waiting for dinner I thought I’d hop on to the SMDB.
I saw a news story about Chinese food on the local station a few months back which pretty much was devoted to this question. According to the story the dishes that are traditionally served in this country are Americanized, but most restaurants have a separate authentic menu for which you can ask. They said that dishes on this menu were more expensive. I don’t remember what they meant by Americanized.
Well, when I was in China, all the restaraunts had basically two different menus - one for native Chinese and one for tourists. I mean actual different food, not just the physical menus. Anyway. Most of the Chinese Chinese food was pretty impalatable to me, though some of the people I was with liked some of it. I think it’s fair to say that Chinese food you get in the US has been Americanized to some extent.
While I’ve never been to China, I was stationed in Hawaii for 3 years. I found that Hawaiian Chinese food had little in common with American Chinese food, except for the names. I can’t explain the difference - it was just different.
What about egg rolls and fried rice…
drooling…
You can get “Chinese-chinese food” as opposed to “American-Chinese food” if you look in the right places. There are many places at least here in California that have an almost exclusive Chinese clientelle.
I have found that most “American-Chinese food” is stir-fried or deep-fried, while most “Chinese-Chinese” foods I have eaten is not - they are either steamed, or stewed in a clay pot, or are some form of noodle soup. Most Americans wouldn’t eat some of the dishes I’ve seen, like “chicken testicles”, or “fish belly” (actually from Taiwanese places, not Chinese). To be sure, I wouldn’t eat that either… but I can vouch for other slighly-less-weird stuff like “fish bladder soup”, “bird nest soup”, “steamed powdered beef”, “cold sliced beef and jellyfish”, “stuffed tofu”, “chicken with pickled vegatbles”, “stuffed bitter melon”, etc…
What authenticity means is questionable. Is chop-suey really inauthentic? It was created by a Chinese person, but in San Francisco. Is any new dish created outside of China inauthentic? What if they started to eat chop-suey in China, would it automatically become authentic?
Anyway, I would definately say almost all Americans would not order like Chinese people would order with the same menu. Most non-Asians here would order meat-dishes exclusively, and are less inclined to eat “family-style” than Asians. Almost every American I know, even here in California, stay away from tofu, and would never order a dish that is vegetarian…
However, I believe some almost cliched dishes are authentic to somewhere. From what I hear, sweet-and-sour pork is rare in China, but in Hong Kong it’s common. A Hong Kong-enese old roomate of mine told me that a good test of a Cantonese-style restuarant is to see how good their sweet-and-sour pork is. A good strategy from what I’ve found, since most places sweet-and-sour sauce is horrible, but the very good places make it pretty well.
Disclaimer: I’ve never been to China.
DOH!!!
I meant Mainland Chinese food.
My apologizies to all you Hawaiians (all 2 of you?). I did not mean to accuse you of being un-American 
I have a Chinese friend (from China) and from what I gather -
Most foods are NOT fried (I think somebody else mentioned this). They typically eat white rice and not that yellow or fried mess. Eggrolls are not Chinese.
He took me to a restaurant that served what he called “real Chinese food” and we ate some stuff that I can’t begin to describe - like “sticky rice in Lotus leaf” - it’s all very different tasting and while I liked some of it, I definately prefer the Americanized version.
One interesting thing that I found out was that when the Chinese eat at a restaurant like that, they typically only drink hot tea - that’s all we drank - you try going and eating a meal with soy sauce and all that goodness and only drinking hot tea - makes you really appreciate a big huge ice-filled super size Coca-Cola.
-Peter Wiggen
Having an ABC ( American-born Chinese) husband and living in NYC, I can say three things :
- The items listed on an Americanized Chinese restaurants’ menu don’t seem to be the dishes commonly eaten by the Chinese , but that probably applies to any ethnic restaurant.
2)Even dishes with the same names are prepared and served differently in Americanized and authentic Chinese restaurants ( They do eat fried rice, but it bears no resemblance to what the Americanized restaurants serve). The authentic ones serve family style,while the Americanized ones usually serve individual plates.
3)If restaurants catering to Americans started serving Authentic food, they’d probably go out of business.
All I know is that dogs testicles in BBQ sauce are LUVERLY!!
oh yeah…and the cat-meat sausages aren’t too shabby either…nice little tang to them! cooked in Chilli oil and a slice of rabie infested rat and you’ve got a concoction which can keep you up all night damaging the Doulton!!
There is a Chinese place near me that offers a seperate “Authentic Chinese Menu” in addition to the usual fare.
Some of the items on this list include:[ul][li]Pork Tripe and Pickled Mustard Soup[]Cold Jelly Fish[]Fried Pork Intestines[]Bean Curd with Thousand Year Egg[]Sauteed Bitter Melon[]Preserved Mustard with Pork[]Sauteed Pork IntestinesSalty Fish Fried Rice[/ul]My favorite though, is a dish called Wu Gong Chang Wang, which is a delightful combination of Pork intestines, tofu, and pickled mustard! :eek:[/li]
Thanks, but pass the shrimp rolls and spareribs, please…
Yer pal,
Satan
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While the posts on this thread have been approximately correct, I think that they’ve tended to overgeneralize. First, Chinese food is very diverse. We’re talking about a country with about as many different styles of cooking as all of Europe (and many more people than Europe).
Second, some of the statements about what Chinese restaurants in the U.S. are like have been overgeneralized also. It was claimed that Americans don’t eat tofu, don’t eat vegetarian dishes, and usually eat fried rice. Speak for yourself. I frequently eat tofu dishes. I frequently eat vegetarian dishes. I never eat fried rice, only steamed rice. When I look around at the other patrons in the Chinese restaurants I go to, they mostly seem to be eating the same things I am. Also, I always drink hot tea, and that seems to be fairly common among the other patrons I see.
This isn’t because I grew up eating Chinese food either. I grew up on a farm in Ohio and didn’t have Chinese food till college. It also isn’t because I specialize in Chinese food. I eat at lots of different sorts of restaurants, and Chinese isn’t even the most common.
It may be true that there are more authentic Chinese restaurants here where I live (just outside Washington DC) than there are in other regions of the country, but I don’t have to make any effort to search out particularly authentic places here. I eat at places that span the price range for Chinese food. (It may be true that I’m an authenticity snob. I always use chopsticks, for instance.)
While it’s true that chop suey and chow mein are American inventions, I don’t very often see them on Chinese restaurant menus anymore. When they are there, they tend to be buried at the bottom of the menu, as if the place is ashamed for serving them. Fortune cookies are also an American invention though, and nearly all Chinese restaurants in the U.S. still serve them.
The food in Chinese restaurants in the U.S. tends to be more greasy than authentic Chinese food, but this is also just a generalization. Many of Chinese restaurants I visit use no more oil than a place in China would.
Authentic Chinese food includes a lot of noodle dishes and meal-size soup dishes. Some American Chinese restaurants do this also, but not all of them.
There seems to be a range in whether Chinese restaurants have separate Chinese menus. Some places just don’t do that sort of thing and serve strictly Americanized food. Some places have a separate menu in Chinese and don’t like to let their non-Chinese customers see it. Some places are happy to show non-Chinese customers the Chinese menu and either have it printed in both Chinese and English or else will be glad to translate it for you. Some places simply have one long menu with a large range of dishes.
The one way in which most Chinese restaurants in the U.S. seem most clearly to be Americanized is that they don’t often serve the odder types of animals and animal parts that Satan listed in his post. Even this is an overgeneralization though. Many Chinese restaurants do do a lot of those items, even among their non-Chinese customers.
Can anyone here tell us about Chinese restaurants in other parts of the world? I’ve been to Chinese restaurants in the U.K., and I found them to be slightly more Westernized on average than in the U.S. I’ve been to a few Chinese restaurants in Australia, and I found them to be about the same as in the U.S. What about other countries?
i did not have this option. sigh.
it is vile.
Wendell,
I have a feeling the restaurants you’re talking about are the more authentic ones.In NYC, there are four very broad types of Chinese restaurants :
-
Take out restaurant- has a few tables, but most sales are takeout. Usually very Americanized.( may not have chopsticks, and you’d have to request them)When my husband goes to one, he has to wait longer than non-Chinese people, because they make it “special” ( more authentic- less meat, more vegetables,different seasonings)
-
Lunch type- located in business area, mostly table service,but does some take out, inexpensive. Also Americanized ( same as above with chopsticks)
-
Upscale type ( I’ve only seen this in Manhattan) More expensive than 2 and 3,but not necessarily expensive compared to non-chinese restaurants.Doesn’t really do takeout, but if in a business area, may accomodate large orders from businesses. Much authentic than 1 or 2 but doesn’t have the dishes Satan listed and usually doesn’t serve family style. (I’ve always been asked about fork or chopsticks)
4)Really authentic- located in Chinese areas,patronized by Chinese people. Food is served family style,has all the things Satan listed and more,can be very inexpensive or very expensive (just like non-ethnic restaurants),and the food tastes like my in-laws and husband make it at home ( have to ask for a fork instead of chopsticks unless there are a lot of non-Chinese in the group)
I think you’re going to the 3’s and 4’s, rather than the 1’s and 2’s,where common orders are a “pint of X” or a combo #1 ( a “main dish”, say BBQ spareribs, fried rice and an egg roll. You probably are somewhat of an authenticity snob if you always use chopsticks ( not a bad thing, so do I- and I always send my husband to the 1’s because the food’s better when he gets it)
Pure take-out Chinese restaurants aren’t very common in this area (in Maryland just outside of DC). In any case, I would never bother getting food in those places. There’s no clear line in this area between the restaurants you label as 1, 2, and 3. While there’s a small Chinatown in DC, authentic places and places with large percentages of Chinese customers can be found all over the metropolitan area.
A 1 you would take your Mother to for her birthday and 3’s get closed down by the Health Department, or what?
Ack! First, I meant to write, “There’s no clear line in this area between the restaurants you label as 2, 3, and 4.” In the previous sentence I already mentioned that there were almost no restaurants in the category that doreen called 1. carnivorousplant, I was talking about the categories of Chinese restaurants that doreen enumerated in her post.
War Sue Gai was invented in COlumbus, Ohio, about 20 miles from where I live. It is boneless battered deep fried chicken served with a brown gravy. Very good!
So that’s it Wendell,
You don’t go to the 1’s and 2’s. ( Two’s have the same food as ones, they just add waiters. I wasn’t very specific about that). I don’t know about anywhere else, but in NYC, there seems to be a takeout place about every three blocks, and that’s what people here in the outer boroughs are normally referring to when they speak of Chinese food.If you’re in a non-Asian residential area, that’s all there is.