Chiropractors

Factual Questions
21

As someone related to a Chiropractor who has been practicing for thirty-five years:

-Neither have plumbers. Does that mean they went to no school at all and have no training whatsoever?

-Since few Palmer-educated chiropractors use magnetic imaging, few have reason to train in evaluating that imagery. However, most competent chiropractors do use X-rays, and have thus been trained in their interpretation.

That’s a sweeping generalization, no different than saying “all doctors are money-grubbers”.

-Very true. Does this, however, somehow reduce the effectiveness of the doc’s actual chiropractic treatments?

-As can more accepted medical procedures. To wit the leaving of surgical instruments and towels in a patient’s body, the amputating of the wrong leg, or leaving the surgery to go cash a check.

Shall we make some more sweeping generalizations?

-That’s kind of the point. Chiropractic adjustments, as noted further above, can relieve pressure on nerves and other conditions, without surgery or drugs. No, chiropractors can’t cure everything- neither can podiatrists, gynecologists, optometerists or cardiologists.

You don’t go to the cardiologist for a PAP smear, and you don’t hit up the optometerist when you have a cavity. So similarly, you don’t go to a chiropractor looking for a cure for cancer, to ease your ear infection or to heal an inflamed appendix.

But from my experience, a chiropractor can do wonders for lower back, neck and shoulder pains.

Yes, perhaps I should modify that with “a good chiropractor…” The person to which I’m related, loudly decries the “quack” chiropractors. The established medical industry won’t accept chiropractors because so much that falls under that title is quackery, and yet without official recognition from institutions like the AMA and similar controls and regulations on licensing and education, the ranks of chiropractors can’t clear out the “quacks”. So it’s very much a Catch-22.

I would imagine that most of the legit chiropractors feel the same way. Like how an MS-certified “software engineer” feels when some guy reads the Cliffs’ Notes of “Computer repair for Dummies” and then hangs out a shingle calling himself a “Certified Software Engineer”.

22

So what do they do? So far I’ve heard ‘manipulating the joints’. What does that mean?

23

As someone who was married to a chiropractor for nearly 20yrs, including his 5yrs at university, I have to say -find a properly qualified and registered one and get some treatment.

Chiropractors (in Australia at least) spend a similar amount of time at university as medical doctors, learn to take, read and interpret X-rays to the same standard, and do many of the same subjects. They are also subject to the same rigorous registration procedures.

So if you have the same standards in the US you are just as safe in the hands of a chiroprctor as you would be with a medical doctor, and I don’t doubt would get better results dealing with a back related problem.

BTW, Podkayne, even a medical doctor will tell you that certain visceral problems can originate from nerve damage/interference in the spinal column, they will definitely tell you headaches can!

24

One point that is being made over and over again is that * some* chiropractors are quacks. Several posters have reported that many chiropractors themselves confirm that

It’s a familiar line of bullshit. One hears the same thing from believers in tarot readers and astrologers. They too will insist that most are charlatans, but of course not their astrologer, no, he’s the real deal. Until he gets something wrong, and then, oh well he mustn’t be a real astrologer, but of course there’s this other guy I’ve heard of, now he is truly qualified…

And of course, if you are a chiropractor or astrologer and someone points out that many astrologers and chiropractors have been shown to be quacks, what better way to deflect that criticism from yourself than by loudly and effusively agreeing, while also insisting that there are a select and elusive few who are OK?

Several posters have stated that chiropractors (or some of them) undergo long periods of study. In what? With whom? Certainly they don’t achieve standard medical degrees, if they did they’d be doctors.

25

Having said that, I thought that one of the linked articles made a very good point:

And that is a more important issue than many MD’s seem to acknowledge.

26

True,

Is anyone here disputing the benefits of a true chiropractor?
There are those who take their profession seriously and are properly trained at some accredited institution, No?

Too many people have been helped by a chiro when all other so-called standard medical procedures have not worked.
If the reason for your discomfort stems from a misalignment of the spine or shoulder blades, hips, etc. and standard non-surgical med. procedures can`t easily fix these, then a chiro may be able to help. They are not miracle workers, neither are most docs., but some common spine misalignments can be remedied by a visit to the chiro.

Surgery on the back should be a last resort, in all non life threatening cases. No one should go through the hell and rehab of back surgery if there is another way to treat the problem.

27

<Eddie Izzard>

“Crack y’ bones!”

</ei>

28

Whuckfistle, read the linked articles. According to them, there isn’t really such a thing as misaligned spine etc (or at least, it is not as widespread as chiros would suggest). Even chiros treating perfectly healthy persons posing as patients diagnose misaligned body parts, and if you go to two different chiros, they will make completely different and often contradictory assessments. Their diagnosis is arrived at by intuition and does not usually match any objective data (such as x-rays).

29

Doc Nickle

I disagree heartily with you

especially re your disagreement with this:

On a legal standard, a chiropractor should defer to a radiologist (a MEDICAL DOCTOR) for reading these radiological studies. As a medical malpractice attorney, I’m aware that most doctors should defer to a radiologist for interpretation of films for anything other than an obvious fracture. So if a medical doctor who is not a radiologist should do do, what in GOD’S GREEN EARTH would make anyone think a chiropractor is qualified to do this?

Regarding the issue of seeing a doctor who can prescribe medication, that’s always a good first bet…then your doctor can refer you out as needed and that helps with insurance. Moreover, with respect to the physical therapist issue, the doctor can refer you to one and insurance is more likely to cover a referred-to physical therapist.

Regarding injuries…yes medical doctors can screw up, but your examples deal with surgical procedures…a chiropractor can screw up without any type of surgery and the results are often horrendous (As mentioned, I defend medical malpractice).

I can chew up and spit out chiropractors in a court of law (car wreck cases). Mind you, I’ve probably seen the worst chiros out there, but still…

I’ve seen darn little to prove that ‘adjustments’ are beneficial long term (other than what can be attributed to placebo effect) and have seen damage done because of them.

30

I’m married to a physical therapist. As mentioned by BottledBlondJeanie, your doctor can refer you to a physical therapist and your insurance will probably cover it.

My view on chiropractors (admittedly influenced by my husband and our good friend who’s an orthopedic surgeon) is that if they’re so good, why do people who see them always say, “I’ve been seeing him for 10 (20, 30, 40) years and he’s great!”
A doctor or a physical therapist will get you fixed and then stop sucking the money out of your wallet. Not the case with chiropractors, apparently.

31

Well…

At least you admit you have a bias.

There are good chiros. And there are bad chiros…

There are good orthos. And there are bad orthos…

There are good attorneys. And there are bad attorneys.

As in most things in life, there is a mixture.

Zwaldd,

If your still considering going the chiro way, try asking your friends for personal recommendations. And here’s one other thing you might try. Ask some chiros who **they[/]b go to when they need an adjustment!

HTH

32

hmmm

FWIW, I would gladly pay 100 times that amount if someone could give me a good back!

Often we do not realize the value of good health, until we lose it.

Take care. We are designed to heal from many things, but you do need to give your body enough time to heal. Covering up the pain with drugs does not correct the problem, they only temporarily mask the problem.

33

This article cites some studies done with regard to chiropractors, and gives some advice for seeking one. The article is on Quackwatch, a website run by an MD who tries to provide science and study based arguments against medical “quackery” (note that the site does not advise against using chiropractors, just gives lots of warnings about the dangers involved with some forms of chiropractic treatment).

34

Chiropractors apply various levels of force and pressure on your joints (in the spine and, in most states, extremities) to help achieve a better balance. That is the theory anyway. Out there in the chiropractic world there is a huge continuum of degrees of force used to achieve healing. Some chiros love to whip you around and make your bones sound crunchy (lots of patients find the sounds quite satisfying); others barely touch you or use some ingenious and/or occult devices to manipulate your bones.

Many chiros are into nutrition and will “prescribe” supplements and herbs. Some may have value; some may not.

I am not a chiropractor but have several friends and former clients who are. I have also been to a few for treatment of chronic back strain. Some are good; others mediocre–like any other health care professional.

I suggest you do what I did many years ago and see an Osteopathic physician. DOs are trained to the same standards as medical doctors and are legally considered to have the same diagnosis and treatment responsibilities. Some DOs specialize in physical medicine (30 years ago most DOs did, but not anymore) and also practice manipulation. They also prescribe drugs, and insurance covers everything to the same extent as an MD.

I prefer osteopathic manipulation because the focus is upon manipulating the muscles that hold the joints in place. My DO has done what the chiros couldn’t–basically relieve my severe back strain for a few days so I can function and rest. He also prescribed effective exercises–and prescribed painkiller drugs that don’t knock me out. I go through this about once very 3 years.

A final option is to find a good physiatrist–which is an MD that specializes in rehabilitation medicine. Many of these folks also do manipulation, though they tend to call it something else to avoid the affinity with chiropractic. Ask you family doc for a referral.

Any kind of “cure” is gonna take you weeks of exercise and rest and ongoing maintenance. Good luck.

35

Princhester , a simple google search would have answered you question, or didn’t you want to read the facts, but rather post a lot of negative unsubstantiated rubbish intended to denigrate something you obviously kow little about.

RMIT in Melbourne, Macquarie University in Syndney and Murdoch university in Perth and not exactly mickey mouse colleges.
http://www.chiropractors.asn.au/aboutchiro/training/training.html]link

36

woops this link might work better .
sorry

37

Sorry for the nonattendance of a previous post, but the real world hath bekoned. Time is short, so I’m just gonna cover the one:

-To which in reply, I ask, do you only get one mammogram in your lifetime? You’re only supposed to visit the dentist once, and even then, only when a cavity forms? Visit the optometrist only when squinting no linger works? Don’t bother to have your cholesterol checked? To paraphrase George Carlin, you shouldn’t worry about having any X-rays done 'til the lump is visible through clothing from across the street?

The relation of which I spoke earlier, deals with many people who work in industrial plants. Welders, pipefitters, linehandlers, even just the electricians and instrument techs. These people often cause themselves minor- or sometimes not so minor- strains that a good chiropractor can put right. He sees similar low-grade though repetitive injuries in joggers, skiers and people who ride snowmachines.

Even office workers- given poor posture or a crappy chair, eight hours in front of a PC can cause, or aggravate, lower back pains. Work requires you there, and in front of that PC; sure, smart people might get a better chair, but then, smart people also smoke and eat greasy foods, too.

Others might have suffered an injury, say a misalignment of the vertabrae, such as my dad suffered when he was 12 as a farmboy, which never got corrected (by any means, medical or chiropractic) and thus frequently needs it “adjusted” simply so he can function. The all-knowing medical doctors fused two of the vertabrae, which cost him a fair bit of mobility- and a fair lump of cash- and which didn’t affect, reduce or alleviate the pain one iota.

For a board rallying against ignorance, there sure seem to be eager to lump all chiropractors in with the astrologer/herbalist types with a bubblejet diploma. “I’ve never heard of a chiropractic school, so they must not exist.”

And geez, since astrologers decry other astrologers in an attempt to look ‘real’ that means when one chiropractor decries another, they obviously, by that stunning analogy, must also be fakes. So what about when “real” cosmetic surgeons denigrate the fly-by-night Beverly Hills strip-mall plastic surgeons?

Good night.

38

I get the impression that rules are diferent in the US from here. In Sweden a Doctor og Chiropractic is a licensed professional, partly funded by the public health care system. To get the license requieres five years of university studies, including interpretation of x-rays, farmakology (sp?). They are covered for liability, the same way a Medical Doctor is, ASF.
The new age/herbal crap doesn’t even exist here. My handy Swedish/English dictionary says the word I’m looking for is wryneck. I get it frequently. My own fault. Stress at work, squeezing the phone between the shoulder and the ear while working on the computer. Once or twice a year, it locks up, and I end up looking like a person working in a library.
First itme this happened I went to an ordinary doc, who prescribed painkillers and said it would heal eventually.
Next time I went to a chiropractor. The guy felt my neck, massaged around it to warm up/soften muscles - then grabbed my head and twitched. Snap & Crackle and I could move again, without pain.
I know what physiotherapists and MD’s say.
And those refuting this will say that by not getting proper treatment, I’m condemning myself to a lifelong exposure to chiro-quacks that will eventuually make things worse and finally break my neck. Yada-yada-yada.
It works. There is no “quacking” going on. These are guys who spent a lot of time studying how to move joints, discs and bones to cure you. It works for me.
YMMV

39

This sent shivers down my spine. A few years ago, I hurt my neck skydiving. After six weeks of discomfort, I finally decided to go to a doctor, who discovered that my C2 vertebra (the Christopher Reeve one) was broken in half. I hate to think what would have happened had I visited a chiro instead.

40

The chiro would have discovered it and not twitched your neck. At least if you went to mine.