How do you know?
I had a grandfather who was a chiropractor. Unfortunately he was also one of the horror story snake oil salesman types (cure cancer, deafness, psych disorders, all with a pop of the back!)
He generally made me want to cry with the sheer off the scale BS he used to shovel. The sad thing was he did it for 35 years and was a very wealthy man.
I’m not so sure that the chiro would have discovered my fractured neck. The MD I went to discovered it only because he decided, after the initial images, to take one more of me with my head bent down. In that image, my C2 opened up at the fracture, but it wasn’t that apparent in the images with my head upright.
Gaspacho and CurtC.
Since they are licensed by our version of the Surgeon General, they are considered qualified to make these judgements. They are doctors. Meaning we, as patients, can have the same demands on them, as we would with any MD.
Now granted, a mistake in a case like this could be made. But that could be done by a GP, as well as an Orthopedic Surgeon. As CurtC says: it was almost by accident that it was found out. A chiropractor, when hearing it happened at a skydiving accident, would send the patient for x-rays.
[frustrated]
Sorry - but you guys don’t seem to hear me. From reading this thread, I gather that just about anyone can hang up a sign, saying “Chiropractor”, in the US. It used to be this way here, till about 15 years ago. Now they are licensed professionals. What’s so hard to understand about that.
I’m only relating my experiences with good, licensed, qualified people. If the rules there make the profession more… curcumspect, well, I’m sorry. But I still have a hard time believing that a country the size of the US will not have a single, educated and qualified chiropractor, with whom you would - literally - trust your neck.
[/frustrated]
I’d recomend you ask your regular Physician. I usually see a Physician’s Assistant when I go to my Doctor, as my complaints are not so sever, and Mark (the PA) has proven to have a wonderful bedside maner. I make appointments to see him specifically, not the regular Doctor.
I twisted my back up, and pulled a muscle in my back a few years ago. I told mark about it. Mark has had some sort of Chiropractic type training, and he aligned my back for me, it worked wonderfully. He also gave me some exercises to strengthen my back.
Recently I have come to the conclusion that I may have a herniated disk, and will see Mark as soon as I can afford it.
So talk to your doctor about Chiropratic matters, he may be able to do what a Chiropractor does, and he’s surely covered by your insurance.
Chiropractics is a legitimate science, but is overrun with those who don’t understand it, really. And I don’t see much hope for cleaning up the industry, as long as it is as unregulated as it is now.
Well, in the last 8 years or so I’ve seen 3 chiropractors. I’ve got a nerve in my lower back that gets pinched if I’m not working out or just generally not stretching. The first one “cracked” my back and I felt better after that. I resumed working out and stretching after that and didn’t have a problem for a couple years. A hard winter in MN and sitting inside and not doing much and the pinched nerved came back. My friend recommended going to his chiro with him and it was a really bad experience. After the $85 charge (he was “nice” and waived the start-up cost because I was referred by my friend) and adjusted me in a room with 5 other people all on cots. He adjusted one person and then went to the next without washing hands or cleaning or anything. His adjustments were unlike the first and last chiros I went to and he didn’t do anything for me.
The 3rd I went to was a week after the 2nd. He was the first I was recommended to by my health insurance co. He was good and I got Rx for 8 visits. I was adjusted and also taught how to properly stretch so it wouldn’t recur. So far, I’ve been good for about 3 years.
And of course YMMV
Don’t think people don’t hear you. If I am ever in Sweden and have back problems I will keep that in mind. However, since I doubt that will ever happen, and I bet most of the people in this thread don’t live in Sweden as well- they like to talk about what it is like in the country they actually live in. The fact that Chiropractors in Sweden are professional doctors doesn’t change how they are in the US. Sweden Chiropractors aren’t Ubiquous through out the world ya know.
Epimetheus
Yes, I’m aware of that. But did you read to the end, where I said that I’m sure it’s possible to find a realchiro in the US. If it’s unregulated and full of quacks, I’m sure the guys with a proper education have som sort of association. Also, the insurance company should have a list of DC they reccomend, since they don’t want to cough up for additional injuries from a quack.
I got slammed for saying that my chiro is a pro (and a very nice lady too) from people saying that I don’t know what I’m talking about - something which I had to reply to. I started out saying that chiros can do wonders for the back and I stand firmly by that.
No neeed to be condescending. I do know that the majority of the Dopers are American.
** The Gaspode**
I understand exactly what you are saying.
In Australia it is the same, 5yrs at university (see my earlier link), covered by health insurance, rigorous registration requirements, which if not met, no licence.
Chiropractors here are respected professionals as well, although with same spectrum of good and not so good ones as medical doctors, surgeons, etc etc.
However untrained snake oil salesmen like drachillix’s grandfather are unable to call themselves chiropractors in this country.
Chiropractors are licensed by all 50 states and are required to have a minimum of 4 years professional education, plus they have to pass a series of professional board exams. Each state defines their scope of practice differently. In US health care licensing, there often is a distinction made between doctors and physicians–the latter can diagnose and treat and prescribe to a far greater degree, depending on their speciality. Chiros are allowed to call themselves doctors, but are not viewed as primary health care physicians in most states-even if they call themselves “Chiropractic Physicians”.
Usually Chiros in the US can diagnose back and extremity problems using an exam and x-rays and maybe order some lab tests. They are allowed to treat by manipulation and some limited physical therapy and maybe nutrition. In Oregon they can even deliver babies, but I think that is rare. . .
The federal and state governments usually reimburse chiros for most of their services–especially for rehabilitation from accidents.
Licensing guarantees a minimum educational/testing criteria but that is pretty limited protection in the real world. There are lots of consumer issues with chiros because their business practices have been shady historically. In my state, Washington, they publish all licensed health care professional disciplinary issues on the web, and chiros seem to pop us fairly frequently.
Most other countries that regulate chiropractic are far less diverse than the US (legally and culturally) and have a smaller population of practitioners to keep track of. That may contribute to a perception of better quality of chiropractors.
That being said, there are far more good, decent and professional chiros in the US than not.
Yes. That seemed odd to me too…
Zwaldd,
I hope you have a good weekend. Let us know how it worked out.
Geoduck you’re wrong on the requirement to have a degree prior to chiro. school. Some states do require it, other don’t. (I’ll get you the site). The problem though is a lot of these chirporactic schools will give the person a B.S. along with the chiropractic training, but it is more BS than B.S.
Also, here is a summary of the JAMA’s research that about 44% of chiropractors have degrees before chiro school. Also, look at the GPA’s…
DAMN SCARY!
BottledBlondJeanie It seems that the US has been sadly remiss in regulating the education of Chiropractors, but I guess that is the price you pay for minimal government intervention in education.
Here are the entry requirement for the Bachelor of Chiropractic Science offered at Macquarie University in Sydney, I don’t know how to transpose into an American GPA but the entry requirements are similar to psychology and certainly higher than podiatry
In Australia most chiropractors choose that career path from high school, so the relevance of already having a bachelors degree is not applicable. It is no different to going to university to become a doctor, a dentist, a physiotherapist, a psychologist or any other health care professional.
BottledBlondJeanie I think you misunderstood my words regarding chiropractic education–“professional” education means post-undergraduate specialized education. Most chiros I know have a 4yr undergraduate degree plus a 4 year professional degree. Sure some chiro schools probably allow folks in with less than an undergraduate degree and that may or may not be OK–it depends on the other qualifications. But all states mandate that level of professional education, and there is an assumption that most folks do have an undergraduate education. In fact in Washington as least, chiros and other health professionals have to pass a difficult basic sciences exam that would be tough for an uneducated person to pass.
Please note that I cannot attest to the actual quality of chiropractic education–and the fact that GPAs of chiro students are low probably does correlate with something less than wonderful.
aulaya, I think American and Australian chiro education is probably about the same. Is the Bachelor of Chiropractic Science the terminal professional degree for chiros? Then it would be equivalent to the Doctor of Chiropractic degree that is standard here.
Comparison with podiatrists is pretty iffy in the US at least. In most states podiatrists have a broader scope of practice than chiropractors–they can perform surgery and prescribe certain drugs.
zwalld if there is any way you can make that skiing trip, I’d consider it. Twice my back went out on me, and days later I was still sore and went skiing; by the end of the day all my back pain was gone. Great exercise, however I would couch that with that being MY personal experience.
Keep in mind that chiropractors go to years of school to get their training, so it’s not neccessarily quackery. They cannot legally prescribe meds, but that might be a good thing.
My back went out on me last week, and I couldn’t walk on my left leg. I went to my doctor, who said he was going to send me to for x-rays but I just had a muscle spasm, and I would be okay. He prescribed me some meds, and referred me to physical therapy (not a chiro).
The xrays were “negative”. Then, a week later, after a long car ride, I woke the next day totally unable to stand and my left foot was numb. Fortunately I had an appointment with the rehab woman who told me I had every symptom of a herniated disc, and that x-rays DO NOT SHOW THAT!
So my physical therapist, who is not a doctor, knew more about my problem than the doctor did!
My mother said when she had me 30+ years ago she couldnt walk for a week because her back went out on her, and literally had to crawl on her hands and knees for a week, but a chiro saved her.
The knock I’ve heard on chiropractors is that they try to “stretch” therapy out, making you think you need more sessions when you may be okay. Just keep this in mind once your back feels better and judge for yourself whether or not you need more treatment; perhaps at that point following a good, sound exercise regimen would be the right way to go.
Ah, my appologies if I sounded condenscending- I didn’t mean it to be that way. I was just explaining the reasons people could not be adressing your points. No harm intended, but sorry if it was caused.
So…
How was your weekend Zwaldd?
Some information for the Perfect Master himself.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_418.html
Enjoy.
From, not for. D’oh.
Just got back from Crested Butte. What a great trip! I kept a steady dose of Motrin and Vicodin and the back held up, even in the steep 'n deep. It snowed Friday and Saturday, and yesterday was sunny…which added up to great powder and perfect weather.
I still want to get my back checked out since I strained it doing a pretty routine moutain biking move and I don’t want to go through this again, at least not any time soon. I’m going to ask my PCP to refer me to a sports injury specialist, so we’ll see what he comes up with.