Chiropractors

Factual Questions
1

My wife goes to a nutritionist at an alternative healthcare practice. The nutritionist’s husband is a doctor of chiropractic (shouldn’t that be chiropracticy?) at the same office.

My wife, V, went the other day for the first time since she had our daughter, C. V mentioned that C sometimes got hiccups for no apparent reason. (I noticed that she got them when she was stressed, i.e., crying.) V also mentioned that C’s right clavicle (collarbone) was greenstick fractured during her delivery. The nutritionist suggested we have her husband look at C, at a “reduced” rate.

Well, we saw him. He said that during most deliveries, the doctors pull and twist the babies head to get them out. (I was there and didn’t see any undue pulling; more like gentle guiding.) This, he said, leads to pinching and stressing of various nerves, most notably the phrenic nerve, and this was probably causing C’s hiccups. He suggested a manipulation to help her. So he had me lie on the table, then hold her on my stomach. He had me hold my arm straight up, then he pulled it down. This was some sort of proof that there was indeed something wrong with her alignment. (All it proved to me was that a grown man could move my arm against my constraint given that he had 20 times more leverage and wasn’t trying to keep a wiggly 4 month old balance on his stomach.)

He then did some neck manipulations on C. Oh my God did she scream! I’ve never heard her scream like that, except when her opthamologist had to stick a drainage needle into her tear duct. After this, he had me hold up my arm, and he couldn’t pull it as far, indicating that he relieved the pressure (or that I was ready for his pull or he didn’t pull as hard).

Charge for this consultation: $75. And he wants to see her twice a week for at least 3 weeks, or up to 2 months. $450-$1200 just to fix hiccups that occur rarely, in a r-month-old baby whose bones are still growing and adjusting?

My wife sensed my discomfort writing the $75 check. Afterward, whe admitted it was probably out of budget. I didn’t come right out and say I thought this was quackery, but I did question the arm thing. (Unless he did a quick Vulcan Mind Meld [sup]TM[/sup], I don’t see how this proved anything.) But I did agree that she have one more appointment, if it made my wife feel good.

Today, my wife called me up and asked if we were going to continue with C’s treatments. If not, I should call and cancel the appointment we made for Friday. I made that call right away.

As an aside, the nutritionist has some left-field theories on V’s diet, but there’s nothing too weird about what she suggests. She does occasionally sell V various vitamins, minerals, and herbal pills out of her own stock.

So, my question: is chiropractic good medicine? Or am I justifiably sceptical (and horrified at C’s screams) to nix my daughter’s treatments?

2

There are two kinds of chiropractors: Doctors who fix your back because you have back pain, and doctors who fix your back because you have heartburn. The first are probably OK. The second are undoubtedly quacks.

3

i certainly don’t have the literature on hand to prove it but…

neck manipulations have been thought to loosen plaque deposits along the walls of carotids. the sloughed off plaque bits find their way to the brain and have allegedly been implicated to trigger a stroke reaction or even a full blown stroke. (note the careful wording)

my girlfriend told me so.

(but she’s a regular mainstream doctor so naturally she’s suspicious of anything holistic or alternative)

peppy!

4

We had a case in Saskatchewan about a year and a half ago when a girl died of a stroke after having had a neck manipulation. They had a coroners inquiry and they found that the neck manipulation had led directly to her death. If they are relieving back pain etc there seems to be some benefit to be derived from it, but when they start to treat cancer, high blood pressure etc. then that definitely smacks of quackery.
Keith

5

This woman I know goes to the chiropracter to relieve her food allergies. She simply brings in a sample of the food she is allergic to so he “knows how to adjust her for it.”

I could hardly keep a straight face when she told me this, but she totally believes it cures her alleged allergies. And she claims her medical insurance pays for it.

6

http://www.quackwatch.com/

This is a site by an MD, Stephen Barrett. It gives a lot of information about various alternative health care stuff. By the title, you can see that he is mostly against it.

Look through the info on Chiropractic and the nutrition stuff.

I’m sorry that you had to watch your daughter suffer like that…

7

It sounds like your wife’s chiropractor is the worst kind of quack. As you’ll see on the Quackwatch Web site mentioned above, chiros invented something called “subluxations,” which they claim are nerve damage spiraling outward from the spinal column, often caused by “birth trauma.” It’s all a load of ba-nanner oil and cannot be proved scientifically. Basically, they invent an illness, tell you that you have it, and then “cure” it.

Nice work if you can get it . . .

8

sounds like a quack.

you should always consult your pediatrician about infants, not a nutritionist or a chiropractor! (not to mention that a chiropractor is most likely trained to treat an adult (fully developed) spine)

Personally, I recommend having your ped. check for any permanant damage caused by the chiropractor.

BTW, hiccups are completely normal & happen all the time for infants.

9

You think people chiropractors are sumpin’?

How about equine chiropractors?

A number of the boarders at the barn where I perform my “stall duties” regularly have a (people) chiroquackter come out and “adjust” their (the horses’) spines. (His wife is one of the boarders.)

10

Cast your memories way, way back—a few months ago I asked about one of my Mom’s Siamese cats, who keeps yanking his damn fur out. None of the vet’s suggestions have helped (prednisone, diet change).

My Mom and I figure the cat is either nuts (Siamese sometimes are), doing it just to annoy us, or allergic. So we’re thinking of calling an animal behaviorist.

Now, I have been told they are NOT “pet shrinks.” We would never be gullible enough for that! Are they really vet-like beings who go through the apartment and look for things that might be irritating the cat? If anyone so much as says “fung shui,” I have told my Mom to give them the Bum’s Rush.

Anyone have any experience with them?

11

Chiropractic’s roots are in complete and utter quackery. Even chiropractor will admit that when pressed. Over the years, it has evolved away from the original, adding other things, like nutritional therapy, that has some scientific basis. Some chiropractors stress that sort of medicine and are harmless.

Still, the quack origins of chiropractic means that quackery is part and parcel with the practice.

Of course, medicine itself grew out of a lot of quackery – theories that had no basis in science. The difference is that medicine tried to learn from its mistakes. Chiropractic tries to fit the round pegs of all ailments into the square holes of its theory instead of changing the theory to match the facts.

12

Godammit!

My “animal behaviorist” post above was SUPPOSED to be a new topic, not a reply to this one! So please ignore.

It was not my fault, by the way—my computer or the MB screwed up, THAT I am, quite sure of . . .

13

I’ve never been to a chiropractor, but my neck and my back often make cracking and popping noises when I wake up and stretch, warm up before exercising, etc. It doesn’t hurt. Do I need to worry about having a stroke as a result of this? I don’t know if a chiropractor’s “adjustments” are very different from this.

14

“Spin Doctors: Deaths, Deceptions and Dubious Claims Haunt Chiropractors’ Bid for Academic Acceptance”
http://www.canoe.ca/ChiroYork
Investigative report regarding strokes (and much more!)

“The Forgotten Death”
http://www.canoe.ca/ChiroYork/lana_lewis.html

Laurie’s mother’s account of witnessing her daughter on the chiropractor’s table.
In RealAudio. If this account doesn’t make your hair stand on end and tears come to your eyes…
http://www.canoe.ca/HealthRealAudio/chealth_laurie.ram
Laurie Mathiason died Feb.7, 1998

“Sudden neck movement and cervical artery dissection”
http://www.cma.ca/cmaj/vol-163/issue-1/0038.htm
Report in the Canadian Medical Association Journal, July 11, 2000
The chiropractor was using Applied Kinesiology. Like Reflex Zone Therapy (Reflexology), it is a “child” of chiropractic. Now what does one call the children of an illegitimate profession? Maybe “second generation bastards”??

Applied Kinesiology: Muscle-Testing for “Allergies” and “Nutrient Deficiencies”
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/ak.html
“The concepts of applied kinesiology do not conform to scientific facts about the causes or treatment of disease. Controlled studies have found no difference between the results with test substances and with placebos. Differences from one test to another may be due to suggestibility, distraction, variations in the amount of force or leverage involved, and/or muscle fatigue. If you encounter a practitioner who relies on AK muscle-testing for diagnosis, head for the nearest exit.”

Other links:

Chirobase
http://www.chirobase.org/

National Association for Chiropractic Medicine
http://www.chiromed.org

Chirowatch
http://www.chirowatch.com/

Concerns about chiropractic at York University
http://www.ndir.com/chiro/intro.html

HCRC FAQ Sheet: Chiropractic
http://www.hcrc.org/faqs/chiro.html

15

Ok so I really don’t considerthem doctors but I think they help.

Ok so I got a good one that doen’t tell me everything is realted to my back being out of alignment. I notice that i feel better when I get my back adusted. If it is out i feel tired and lathargic agigned I feel great. The doctor didn’t tell me that I found that out though.

The quacks are the ones who say they can align you back diffrently to solve diffrent problems. WRONG either you are aligned or you arn’t. It is that simple. Chiropractors are good because they know what to do to mever every verabrae the way that is needed to be put in the right place.

One thing the Doc did tell me is that getting my back adjusted could lower my blood pressure but he explained it in a way that made sence. I was in pain, pain = higher stress= higher BP. get adjusted make less pain= less stress= less pain.

Basic Rule of thumb if they can explain how they are gonna help you and you can beleive that then it will proably work.

16

Egtaw1

I have to strongly object to your last paragraph. You said…

As has been said in this post by Eve…

Lots of people believe the subluxations bullsh!t, and pay chiropractors lots of money to have them crack their backs. They do not address the real causes of their diseases which can be cured by real doctors. Not to mention the sadists like the quack mentioned in the OP. (I get more angry everytime I think about it.)

Check out some of the sites that fyslee posted (great links, btw). It can’t hurt to look at the other side of the argument.

17

First of all, you should go to

http://www.quackwatch.com/

and read-up on the TRUTH concerning chiropractors. (Sneak preview: 99% are QUACKS.)

Second, you should go BACK to the chiropractor and perform a “manipulation” on his head with your fist. Free of charge, of course.

18

NO NO NO NO
I let a chiropracter adjust my 6 year old. (FREE! with moms treatment) He started screaming when she adjusted his neck and she went ahead and adjusted it to the other side WHILE HE WAS SCREAMING. He wasn’t the same for a week. He was old enough to tell me how it had hurt him, and refused to ever go into the building again. This same “DR” diagnosed my Ex with gallstones and sent him home with a recipe for some liquid he supposed to mix and drink large quantities of so he would pass said stones. Unfortunetly he had appendicitis. I took him from her office to the hospital, so he didn’t follow her instructions, but imagine if he had? Surgery after a half gallon of salt water? She also felt that the bones in a persons skull could get jammed in a head injury (however slight) and need adjustment for many many visits. I can’t begin to tell you what is wrong with THAT logic!

19

From Quackwatch:

Now my shoulder was subluxing (sp?) many years ago as a result of too much tennis, and my physical trainer at the time recommended a few things to fix it; rest, therapy, and not re-injuring it by going back and playing before it was healed. However, I did see a qigong master once in Hong Kong, and he was able to correctly position my shoulder back in its socket. Or at least it felt like it. Being a non-believer, I was amazed, but hey, who was I to deny that it worked to relieve my pain?

Still, it was not a permanent fix, and it didn’t do anything that rest and therapy would not have been able to do. We should take Chiropractice the same way. It may make you feel good, but we surely can’t expect it to deliver more than its face value.

20

I would never go to a chiropractor.

My mom had back pain a few years ago. She went to her chiropractor, who gave her adjustments. She must have gotten momentary relief, because she kept going back. When the pain reached serious proportions, she finally went to her real doctor. He discovered that she had a fractured disk in her spinal column, with shards of it lodged in precarious positions. She had to have surgery to fix it. Her doctor said that the chiropractor made it much, much worse. She’s totally fine now, thank God.

I just don’t get the whole field. I have good friends who are chiropractors, and I just keep my mouth shut when they extol the wonders of their craft.