Christian Peacemaker Teams in Iraq - you're pitted

Call yourself Christians? Ungrateful, snidy little shits would be more appropriate.

They issued a statement after the liberation of their colleagues in Iraq. Did they take the opportunity to thank the troops who risked their lives to free the hostages? Not a fucking chance. They did remember, however, to shovel some shit on their heads.

We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq. The occupation must end.

Yes, we know you’re opposed to the occupation, that you’re fucking saints whose hearts ache for your Muslim brothers and sisters, we get all that. How about using some of that Christian charity to offer just a word of thanks to these particular soldiers? Doesn’t extend that far, huh?

Hey, mustn’t forget the poor put upon terrorists, must we?

*Today, in the face of this joyful news, our faith compels us to love our enemies even when they have committed acts which caused great hardship to our friends and sorrow to their families. *

Fucking toads. You disgrace the name of a noble faith by your base ingratitude. Fuck you.

I don’t know about you but that sounds pretty damn “Christ-like” to me.

Sanctimonious, I’d have to say, and opportunistic. As a Christian, I have always struggled with prayer, for one reason more than any other, and this group’s statement gets to the heart of it. It’s so easy to misrepresent the spirit (small “s”) of God by using his name manipulatively to serve one’s (political) ends. And there is no manipulation (or anything of deceit, deception or any kind of darkness) in God. Put rather flippantly, prayer’s okay if you speak normal language and don’t drag God into it.

How is what they said wrong? They were there because they believed the occupation was wrong. They were abducted and then rescued and they still believe the occupation is wrong. They sound like people of very strong beliefs…beliefs not changed even through personal experience and hardship.

I’m sure they are grateful to have survived BECAUSE they were rescued by troops but why should that mean they still think troops being there is wrong?

Perhaps they sought martyrdom? I mean, Jesus would have been pretty pissed off if some troops had rescued him from the cross: “Nail me back up! I’m doing this for your sins - I don’t want to be rescued!” Personally, I think they were just grandstanding dumbshits: like going to Iraq to preach Christian tolerance was going to achieve anything except get themselves blown up or taken hostage.

[hijack]Even when he manipulated Pharaoh into not letting the Israelites go and then killed all the first born because Pharaoh wouldn’t let the Israelites go?[/hijack]

Maybe. But todays Christians, to me, seem to fall into 3 distinct camps a) SEND ME MONEY b) I’m Christian and I believe in Jesus and you better damn respect that or I will tell you off c) I’m out to fix the world.

This lot (in my mind anyway) were clearly C types. They wanted to do well. YES they were nuts but I don’t think they seem like CHRISTIAN headline grabbers. Anyway I’m glad they are home.

Best wishes to the family of the one who isn’t. Many condolences.

The group has expressed gratitude to the soldiers that rescued them, though belatedly. Word is they were getting flooded with calls because of this.

They still got an interesting dig in, though:

From here.

I wonder if their gratitude would have been shaken badly had shots been fired. Neverless, I’m happy they’re home, where they should have stayed in the first damn place.

Well, now we know how the average Christian thinks of those who actually try to live a Christ-like life, don’t we? Working for peace? Unthinkable! Forgiving your enemies? Hypocritical!

How is it hypocrisy to hold to their beliefs about pacifism even though they were rescued by the very forces they’re protesting against? Yes, I’m sure they’re grateful their colleagues were rescued. That doesn’t mean they have an obligation to say, “We were wrong. The invasion of Iraq was correct all along.” They don’t believe that. It would have been hypocritical to do that. What they did, rather, was NOT hypocritical.

They’re not deserving of criticism for this, in my opinion…

No, they deserve some criticism. When the hostages were recovered, the group rejoiced over their “release”, not their rescue, and didn’t acknowlege at all that they were rescued by soldiers.

Even a pacifist must admit that a soldier can sometimes do good, even if the military system is morally flawed. Which is what they later said in their subsequent statement, in so many words.

Failing to do so from the start just smacks of denial.

You obviously are clueless as to the beliefs and mission of the CPT,aldiboronti.
From another Friends statement regarding Tom Fox’s death:

The members of the CPT knew the danger they were facing and consistently opposed intervention by violence should they be captured.
While I am sure they are very grateful to be released, nothing about their rescue changed the horror that is Iraq today.
The spokemen for the CPT is simply being true to the mission of the CPTwith his statement.

Pacifists can be very muddle-headed. I recommend “Why I am not a pacifist” by CS Lewis to them.

David, I wonder, did God really make Pharoah act the way he did? Wasn’t it his choice?

Whether or not it’s hypocrisy, it certainly shows that their pacifism is pretty fucking stupid. These are not people committed to a principle. These are people who have been blinded by their own vanity.

“Get down and LICK those boots in gratitude, you hippie!”

Any demonstration of authentic Christian values makes what passes for “authentic Christian values” in our culture look positively Satanic.

The troops did their jobs for which they are paid. Saying thanks would have been polite but not necessary. Maintaining their opposition to the war is hardly the same as “shoveling shit on their heads.” You do NOT disrespect the troops by opposing the war. Decisions to go to war or not are political ones and it’s the troops’ job to do what they are told once those decisions are made. Whether the country is behind the war or not is unimportant. If your ego is so fragile that you must be thanked and honored and that every person in the nation must support every military action that the government takes, then I suggest you not get into the military.

Believe what you will, nothing I say on a message board will change that.
However, I would like to point out that, despite WWI and WII and all the other conflicts of the last century, military action has not made the world any safer or more secure.
And before anyone launches into a defense of WWII as the ‘good’ war, may I suggest that if Germany had not been economically crushed after the first World War, and that if businesses in America and Europe had not aided and abetted the rise of the Nazi’s by supplying them with equipment while ignoring the government’s warmongering, and most of all, if the principal of recognizing the divine Light in each human being had been adopted by both the Germans and the allies, the Nazis would never have come into power.

That’s a lot of "if"s. The absense of those "if"s is why pacifism is absurd and immoral.

“They (pacifists) preach that if you see a man flogging a woman to death you must not hit him. I would much sooner let a leper come near a little boy than a man who preached such a thing.”- G. K. Chesterton

You’re a fucking idiot.

[hijack]

From the NRSV:

He does this a few more times. But sometimes Pharaoh’s heart is just hardened, he does it himself. Which… yeah, that always bothered me.

[/hijack]

Little Plastic Ninja, There’s an issue in some versions of the Bible. Sadly, that’s mostly a very bad translation. For some reason it keeps popping up. Regardless, I’m uinformed by some people who read the original that the passage is more accurately rendered as, “he hardened his heart against the Lord.” I’m told it’s some kind of Hebrew grammar thing, but I don’t speak the language.