Christianity and the power of prophecy

Great Debates
1

I recently had a discussion with a friend about psychic powers. She is a Christian, and has been taught that exercising, studying, and or deveolping these powers would be sinful. Along the same lines, utilizing the services of a fortune teller of any type would be wrong as well, since she is indirectly using these powers.

I am not a Christian, but my take on this situation is that The Bible often speaks of prophets and in many instances, God speaks through these prophets.

My question is this: Is it really wrong for a Christian to use any psychic powers, directly or indirectly, even if said powers are used for honest and helpful purposes? If it is wrong, WHY is it wrong? If it was OK then but wrong now, when did it become wrong? Citing specific verses where these practices are specifically condemned would be helpful.

2

Its wrong because you’re getting ripped off. :slight_smile:

3

I always find that when I’m working with Evil Forces that you have to be very careful. At some point those forces will turn on you and try to consume you.

If you are not careful the Old Ones or Yog sogoth the Fungi from Yuggoth, or even Chthulu himself might appear!

Even if you try to use your powers only for good (as I always do) the lure of the dark path is always strong. Once you start to use your psychic forces you may find that they will arrive unbidden, when you least expect it.

I would recomend against Christians or anybody else without the proper training trying to deal with the Evil Forces.

4

personally i assume that all human beings have some degree of psychic abilities. since i’m into the reincarnation paradigm these abilities can grow over lifetimes.

i regard conventional christianity as an anti-intellectual and anti-spiritual religion. took a wrong turn when it merged with the roman empire.

try PSYCHIC SELF-DEFENSE by Dion Fortune. there is stuff in it i am highly skeptical about, but that is true with most books i read. this is a world of liars and information hiders.

                                              Dal Timgar
5

Hasturhasturhasturhasturhastur . . . .

6

All right, enough of the H.P. Lovecraft fan club. :slight_smile: If you want REAL information on Christianity and the psychic, check out the following Web page:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/divin_bibl.htm

Basically, it says that Christianity forbids certain types of divinatory practices, but seems to allow others. It also forbids BLACK magic; that is, magic used to harm people; but does not seem to forbid non-harmful magic. Of course, the folks at this Web site are religious liberals. If you asked a fundamentalist Christian about this, they’d say all supernatural power is categorically evil.

7

I hadn’t thought of checking there… Basically what the OP was referring to is the stance that fundamentalists take? What makes it evil, and why?

8

I’m going to stop the bullet, I think I can, I think I can, I think I can, SPLAT

9

Since, by definition, God is supernatural, this really clarifies a lot of the contradictions in the Christian church and its doctrines.

::Smacks self on forehead::

“God is evil, I should have known!”

10

I don’t know where to begin, so I’ll just rant mindlessly.

What is it with people mixing up their belief systems? I have a nice, consistent, rational view of the universe. Is it too much to ask that people be consistent?

Case in point – got in an argument with Christian co-workers who were trying to convince me of the existence of karma. Aren’t those belief systems mutually exclusive? I mean, either God is the architect of all, who doles out punishment and reward in the next life, or the Universe responds to a law of hidden cause and effect, where your good and bad actions in various lives result in good or bad fates in future lives. I can accept believing in one or the other. But both? Either people are more creative than I am in reconciling their disparate beliefs, or really just aren’t paying attention.

My guess is that fundamentalist Christians believe that the only two sources for supernatural power or knowledge would be God or Satan. If you’re developing your psychic powers through secular means, rather than getting them delivered as a gift from God, then it’s most likely you’re being empowered by Satan. So, psychic powers are bad.

Of course, my slavish devotion to the scientific method pretty much saves me from worrying too much about psychics, Satan or God. Or karma, for that matter. Or having my soul captured by a camera, or being defeated by the giants during Ragnarok. Nope, just a nice simple life followed by… well, not much, really.

11

I’m with Keenan.

There’s no evidence of psychic powers.

There’s no evidence (apart from personal faith) of God.

So why worry about one forbidding the other?

P.S. don’t give fortune-tellers any of your hard-earned money!

12

The OP doesn’t have anyhing to do with whether psychic powers are real or BS, but why they are considered evil.

By posting the question, I was hoping to get the viewpoints/arguments of some of the Christians on the SDMB along with the guesses of those of other faiths.

13

I can’t speak for Christianity, but from the Jewish perspective, prophets had an important role to play in communicating G-d’s word to the people, but their role was very strictly monitored. A prophet could only be considered to be a prophet if what they said came true, and even if someone made a series of correct prophecies, and then one that didn’t come true, he would be considered a false prophet, and put to death. This would discourage charlatans from claiming to have ‘powers’ they didn’t.

I also believe that the Jewish understanding is that the time of prophecy is over (but I may be wrong), but I don’t think this would have any impact on Christian thought, as it happened after the split between the two religions. There are specific laws barring various magical activities (for want of a better term) in Judaism, and Christianity seems to have taken some of these over (which reminds me of another Great Debate I must start/check if it’s been done before).

HenrySpencer

14

As HenrySpencer has already noted, Deuteronomy 18:18-22 basically says that if a prophet’s words don’t come true, he’s a false prophet, and should be put to death. In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, however, the criterion is that a prophet who seeks to lead others into worshipping foreign gods is to be put to death, regardless of whether or not their prophecies come true. Conservative non-Pentecostal Protestants would likely also add that while prophecy was legitimate during the time when the various books of the Bible were being inspired, the canon of Scripture has now been closed, so anything that purports to add to the Word of God is therefore false–I don’t recall what verse(s) they use to justify this, although if the canon isn’t closed, the potential for ecclesiastical and theological chaos is obvious. Conversely, any prophecy which doesn’t purport to be the Word of God would be tantamount to being the word of a demon or idol–at least, according to their theology.

15

(Offered with a big “Your Mileage May Vary” warning.)

I’d agree with previous posts. If you presume to speak in God’s name, you have to be completely correct, or God has not spoken through you. There are spiritual reasons not to get involved with psychics, fortunetellers, etc., which I’m sure your friend’s pastor/priest would tell her about.

Does your friend know much about the charismatic movement in Christianity? Some charismatics (usually, but not exclusively, found in Pentecostal churches) argue that the Holy Spirit gives people prophetic insight when they pray for people, churches, or nations today.
Most Christians are cessationists. That is, they believe that the prophetic is no longer necessary, given that we now have the Bible.
I mention this because lots of psychics will specialize in giving people alleged personal insights into their future (“You will meet a new man…I predict a long journey for you…”). That’s what most people think of when you think of psychics, fortune tellers, etc., and I’m thinking that that is the sort of thing that your friend would be interested in doing, not so much the prophecies about entire peoples and nations.

If so, most Christians would say that she shouldn’t pursue anything to do with prophecy. There are some charismatic theologians (Jack Deere comes to mind) who would say that prophecy, in a Christian context, is still valuable.

Hopefully your friend will have a talk with her pastor/priest about this and read some good Christian works on the subject.

16

Let’s see if I can take a shot at this. I used to be very heavily into the Pentecostal/Charasmatic Church, which you will find a lot of your televangilists have backgrounds in (Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Robert Tildon, isn’t that enough!). I had the classic “my life was so bad until Jesus” type story, and many of the things I’m about to describ starting bothering me a lot once I started feeling better about myself. I am no longer in this movement, and no longer a Christian, but feel I can contribute here regardless.

In a nutshell, if you are a Christian and use these “powers” with faith in Jesus for the benefit of the church or potential members of the church (depends on which power) then it is ok. If you have a different faith, than it is from Satan and false.

Since we are talking about a large sect of Christianity (I refer to my church going days as being in “the cult”), I think it’s appropriate to use NT verses, specifically the gifts (powers) as described in 1 Corinthians 12:7-10.

And for information’s sake, I’ll try to expand a bit. There are nine gifts (called charims, hence the Charasmatic movement) here: Wisdom, Word of Knowledge, Faith, Healings, Miracles, Prophecy, Dicernment of Spirits, Tongues, and Intrepretation of Tongues. The problem here is that the NT doesn’t define exactly what these all entail, but that doesn’t stop them from “using” them and after spending a few years being indoctrinated into their way of thinking, I have some insight. Basically, almost all of these can be considered “pyschic” powers to some degree or another. To save space, I’ll only mention the biggies: Word of Knowlege, Healings, Prophecy, Tongues and Intrepetation. The others aren’t really talked about much (especially Wisdon, go figure).

Word of Knowledge: The ability through the Spirit to supernaturally see into someone’s life and either have enouraging words for them or tell them something they need to here. For example, the person with this gift would say “I see God breaking the chains that are holding you back, and from this day forward you will be free of that thing that is holding you back.” This can go on for a while and not seen as a prophecy, but more of a message from God into an individuals life. Another example is one the pastor told of walking through a grocery store, calling a woman by name and telling her about her cheating husband, and God wanted her to know that she is still loved even though she doesn’t think she is.

Healings: Speaks for itself. These people believe that certain ones have bestowed upon them a gift to go and heal the sick. Usually done by the laying on of hands. The most “famous” one in the church I went to would sit you down, sometimes do measurements on limbs, proclaim what is wrong with you, pray and many times proclaim you are healed. One woman had lower back pain, he sat her down, said it was caused by one leg being shorter than the other, prayed, and then claimed that one had grown and they are both the same length.

Prophecy: Very big. Basically fortune telling but it’s from God so it’s all right. I sat in with a supposed modern day “prophet” who went to each person in the room and prophesied over them, giving insight in their life and their future. For me? He said he saw me with my own ministry and I would do great things for Jesus. Talk about being off! I think he carried around Chick tracks.

Tongues: Probably the biggest. This was people speaking in different languages (if not human languages, then angelic) and was attainable by everyone if they just let their mind go. It was used in worship and to get one in the “mood” for prophecy or healing.

Interpretation: Those who claimed to understand what others were saying when speaking in tongues, not of their own mind, but superntaurally through the Spirit. Usually a message to the congregation to repent or obey or God loves you.

I think these all fall under the realm of pychic powers. However, it was always emphasized that these were gifts from God, and the person themselves had no “power” in and of themselves. The emotional (and sometimes physical) rush that occurs when these things happen is usually enough to keep the questions and doubts from coming.

17

I just have to ask, Mr. Mayor – was your impression that these people had these gifts, or were they only faking having these gifts because Paul said a Christian would have these gifts?

18

Please, just Quimby is fine.

I think these people believed they had these gifts, and the power of persuation is very mighty. They are encouraged in the congregation to seek after them. Paul’s words have a lot to do with it, since they are very much literalists in Biblical intrepetation. I wouldn’t classify it as a conscious “faking”. I would classify it as being over-emotional and wanting something so badly that they “experience” it, and therefore it is real and something no one can take away. For example, the phenomenon known as being slain in the spirit, where the pastor prays over them, touches them and they fall down under the “power” of the spirit. Is it real or are they faking? I would compare it to the scenes you see of Beatles fans fainting at the mere sight of being in their presence. Are they faking it too? No. Same emotions, different context.

Do I think these gifts are real? No, not in the least. It is in the same category as fortune telling, tarot cards and seances but with a NT twist. Emotions and expectations run extrememly high.

My personal belief is that the writings of Paul was to help incorporate the Mystery religions in Corinth into the newly forming Christian church. That is why he calls for orderly services, for women to keep quiet and be subjective to men as many of the mystery religions were very emotional and volatile and lead by women. I think that is why he emphasizes love over the gifts in the next chpater(1 Cor. 13). It was a transitional plan which worked fairly well.

Interestingly enough, if you look into the beginning of the Pentecostal movement, which is a little over 100 years old, you will see that the founding members were very much into psychic powers, hypnotism and the occult. If I remember correctly, it starts with the Azuza Street revival and the “latter rain” movements in California.

19

Scylla wrote:

“Once you have started down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.”
– Yoda
And incidentally, here’s a review of the Star Wars movies from the highly Fundamentalist-Christian “Childcare Action Project” film review website: http://www.capalert.com/capreports/starwarsstudy.htm. The gist of their review is that the Star Wars movies are good for our little kiddies except for their notion of “the force,” which is akin to devil worship.