Christianity is a necessity for science.

The BBQ Pit
81

Oh, I knew what you were talking about, kanicbird. Christ refers to it in at least one debate with the Pharisees.

But saying that the Lord of Hosts wasn’t punishing David is, and forgive my French, bullshit. The LoH isn’t just powerful; he’s sovereign. He decides who lives and who dies. And it’s explicitly presented as a punishment in the text:

It’s clear that the LoH, angry at David’s crimes of fornication and murder, took out his ire on the innocent child of this union. He killed the baby because He wanted to punish David, and, of course, because he (the LoH) is an evil dick.

kanicbird, here’s your problem. I think you’re a genuinely nice fellow, or at least your online persona is. Stipulating that persona is an accurate reflection of your real-life nature, I would not hesitate to leave my pet or my wallet in your custody. But because you yourself are compassionate, you cannot abide the notion that the guard you worship is vile and cruel, and so you are forced into endless mental contortions to justify His vile and evil acts. I don’t think you’d be as generous if we were talking about a story of, say, Odin doing something evil. Both Odin & the LoH are fictional, of course, but at least Odin comes out and says “Yeah, I do evil things from time to time. Hence the name Bolverk. Anybody got a problem with that?” The LoH, by contrast, claims to be loving and gentle and good, to want nothing but the best for his children, while all the while torturing and killing him. He’s like a father who demonstrates his love for his daughter by beating her with a belt when a boy smiles at her.

82

You’re welcome. I was just wondering if you were posting from some alternate universe where I was a nice guy. I’ve often wondered what that would be like.

83

God will discipline us to the degree He know we need to bring us to walk in His ways. In this case the death of the child, and IIRC the divided kingdom also was due to this.

We can also see this with Adam and Eve, what Eve needed to not be deceived would be to submit to her husband (as it appears Adam would not have eaten except to be with Eve). Is it punishment that God does not want Eve to be deceived again and have set up rules for this not to happen again?

84

We’ve gone through this before, of course, but it simply astounds me every time you justify “discipline” or “punishment” that consists of killing one person for another person’s crime. Particularly when the person to be killed had nothing whatsodamnever to do with the offender’s sin, and in fact was born after it occurred.

In a moment, I’m sure, you’ll say that God’s execuction of King David’s child is a presaging of Christ’s death on Calvary, of the Son of Man taking on the sins of the world for the benefit of mankind. I’ll save you some time by pointing out that Christ, at least, consented to what was happening. The baby didn’t, even in terms of the story.

85

That only proves that God is a moron. If he really didn’t want Eve to be deceived, he would have given her, y’know, common sense.

86

The knowledge of good and evil? It appears like she actually never gets that, only Adam:

87

1.) Defining science is really really hard (hint: mere development and use of technology is probably not sufficient).
2.) At some point in the definition you’ll probably end up leaning rather heavily on the scientific method.
3.) Figuring out who deserves credit for the scientific method is really really hard.
3a.) You probably can’t credit anyone prior to the Greeks.
3b.) You probably can’t credit anyone after Francis Bacon.
3c.) The lion’s share of credit will probably go to a collection of Muslim and Christian scholars from the 8th-13th centuries, with a large blip for Bacon later on. This may be giving the Greeks less than they deserve, but it’s hard to know too much about their methods given the sketchiness of the sources.

If ranting about how Christianity is evil and antiscientific makes you feel better, feel free (especially since we can’t stop you). If you’re trying to get a better understanding of the history of science, on the other hand, go listen to something by the teaching company.

88

You misspelled “sadist,” which the Lord of Hosts certainly is in the fundamentalist reading of this myth. If He is omnipotent & omniscient, and did not wish Adam & Eve to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of God & Evill, then why put it in the Garden of Eden in the first place? Why put the serpent in the Garden? Did he not know what the serpent would do? Was he SURPRISED? Did the serpent outwit the Lord of Hosts somehow?

89

Like I said, your God’s a moron.

90

Get bent. I said what I meant.

91

There is alot of one person dieing, or going through great hardship for the sins/deliverance of many. Jesus didn’t have a choice either however since He has to follow the will of the Father.

92

Being vast and multitude-containing & all that jazz, I do not, in fact, believe Christianity to be inherently evil–certainly not in the sense that, say, Nazism is. I think certain interpretations of Christian dogma are evil. I think that many Christians have done evil things, just as many Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, atheists, pagans, & holders of other metaphysical belief systems have done evil. (Likewise many members of all those belief systems have done good things.) I think many persons who are otherwise kind and loving (as I’m willing to stipulate kanicbird may well be) give the Xtian god a pass on the vile things attributed to him in myth that they would never give Odin or Mithra or Bast or Zeus or, oh, just pretend I went on and on. Of course, the Lord of Hosts, Odin, Mithra, Bast, Zeus, & the rest of their ilk aren’t actually evil, for the same reason that the Joker isn’t actually a murderer.

93

Ah, so you’re a misogynist, as well as a lunatic fundie. Interesting how the two often go hand in hand, eh? :rolleyes:

94

Q.E.D., I apologize for offending you. I was making a joke and do not wish to pick a fight with you.

95

That is the Word of God, complain to Him.

96

My comment wasn’t directed at you; I think we’re actually making fairly compatible points about what science is or isn’t.

97

Ah. In that case, no offense taken and no apology necessary. I misunderstood your intent.

(and BTW, if you want to pretend to be a badass, you’ll be more successful if you don’t puss out and apologize when someone insults you. :p)

98

I thought that might be the case after I reread your post. The sentiment seemed odd coming from you. But I thought it might have been a circuitous way of saying “Skaldimus! Dude! Stop your ranting and start a thread about the Silmarillion!”

I’m not KGS, but may I try anyway?

:: clearing throat ::

Yoo-hoo? Yahweh? Lord of Hosts? Can you stop being imaginary for, like, 2 minutes so we can talk? Thanks!

Okay, here’s the thing. A lof of people who attribute the Bible to you are, well, touched. Some are downright assholes. They’re frequently judgmental and sex-hating and misogynistic and whatnot, on top of their generally obscurantist bent. If you wouldn’t mind writing in giant flaming letters “Hey, all you Christian fundamentalists, hie yourselves to a therapsit and deal with whatever childhood traumas moved you to be the annoying way you are, that would be great.”

Now, I will concede that I may be the person in the wrong here. In case I am, please send us a sign by smiting me, personally, with a volley of hailstones that not only burst into flame upon contact with the Earth and/or my flesh, but also follow me and only me around. Okay? No smiting my wife or stepdaughter or nieces or nephews or sisters or my older brother. (Feel free to smite my oldest brother all you want, though. I’m thinking thousands and thousands of acid-spitting frogs.)

Also, just so there’s no misinterpreation, if I am wrong about you being the imaginary creation of Bronze-Age goatherds who needed a justitfication for bullying and raping and pillaging and what not, please deliver $1,000,000 to the following Dopers: kanicbird & ITR Champion on the “jesus is magic” side, and Telcontar & KGS on the “We like Science” side.

Thanks. You can go back to being fictional now.

99

One last time: I am no longer plotting to conquer the Earth & force Campbell Brown, Monica Bellucci, & Natalie Portman to be the heart of my harem. Thank you.

100

Oh, no no. Don’t you see? It’s only through faith that we are saved. Which means, God can only save us by completely hiding any and all evidence of his existence (in addition to throwing us red herrings like dinosaur fossils, billion-year-old rocks, the theory of evolution, etc.) If God were to reveal his true nature to you, that would be PROOF and not FAITH, and therefore you’d be damned for eternity. (Which, of course, means that certain Biblical figures who had direct communion with God – Abraham, Moses, and the Virgin Mary herself – are all currently roasting in hell, but that’s a subject for another thread…)

Well, there’s your problem. Demons aren’t supposed to be worshipped – demons exist to do our bidding. In particular, Azazel is my bitch.