Christians - Is there free will in heaven?

[cosmosdan]

@Czarcasm

Do you want a good example of what can happen if you are open to all points of view about a subject? Go down to a “Psychic Fair” and see all the people that worked harmoniously to put it together. Then check it out closely to see how many of their methods and ideas conflict with each other. Because there is a “You don’t comment on my ideas, and I won’t comment on yours” approach, they will not critique each other and thus nothing of substance can be learned from each other(providing there was anything of substance there in the first place, of course.)
The same goes for threads like this one. It might be “nice” to put out the belief that all ideas are equally valid, in hopes that everybody gets to feel good afterwards, but what can really be gained by such an approach? You come in with an idea, someone says “How interesting!”, and you go out with an idea.

I see the point you’ve you’ve been making and I agree that sometimes you have to be willing to say you’re wrong. I think a conflict of ideas and a little confrontation is one of the ways we grow. Hopefully we examine others ideas and our own in the process.

In the spiritual arena and maybe in sociology and philosophy as well perhaps the goal is personal growth and by association, the growth of a society. IMO it’s okay for my friend to go to see a physic counselor if she feels that works for her. If Christianity, Buddhism, Wicca, or whatever, works for somebody as their vehicle of choice then so be it. We can discuss, what works and why and allow that it’s not a one size fits all proposition.
Believers become atheists and atheists become believers. Is one transformation clearly superior to the other?

[Lobohan]

@chowder

In which case there are are over a billion nutjobs out there

Oh way more than that. We’ve got Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and assorted other sects. Each having a contradictory view of what happens when brain activity ceases.

We’re having an argument about the details of a place there is utterly no proof for. We might as well be asking what the CPU in the movie Tron tastes like.

[Czarcasm]

@Lobohan

Oh way more than that. We’ve got Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and assorted other sects. Each having a contradictory view of what happens when brain activity ceases.

We’re having an argument about the details of a place there is utterly no proof for. We might as well be asking what the CPU in the movie Tron tastes like.

Crunchy, with raspberry filling.

[turbopower]

@Koxinga

Well, we’re talking about people who do make it to heaven, not “the other place”.

I was talking about people who also accept that Jesus died for their sins.

@Koxinga

I don’t know about animals, but I do have a hard time reconciling children suffering with God’s nature. That’s one I haven’t wrapped my mind around yet.

Why not have the same hard time reconciling animals suffering?

[Poor_College_Student]

Heaven is an orgasm. Discuss.

[Revtim]

@Poor College Student

Heaven is an orgasm. Discuss.

Heaven shouldn’t require clean-up time.

[Poor_College_Student]

@Revtim

Heaven shouldn’t require clean-up time.

That’s why it lasts for an eternity!

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Czarcasm

Since you are citing him as a source of information about the nature of Heaven, I think a more important question is: Do you think Muhammad’s answers about heaven are correct?

Trying to pin me down as a Muslim? I cited the Koran as a source for what Muslims believe.

[Czarcasm]

@The Flying Dutchman

Trying to pin me down as a Muslim? I cited the Koran as a source for what Muslims believe.

And I could say the Bible is the source for what Christians believe about the nature of Heaven, but it’s just not that simple.
I don’t know where you got the idea that all Muslims agree on the what the Koran says, but I suggest you do a little research before classifying them as some sort of “group mind”.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Czarcasm

And I could say the Bible is the source for what Christians believe about the nature of Heaven, but it’s just not that simple.
I don’t know where you got the idea that all Muslims agree on the what the Koran says, but I suggest you do a little research before classifying them as some sort of “group mind”.

Czarcasm, I never asserted anything about what Muslims believe about the nature of heaven. All I posted to was that a million people (I had a majority of Muslims in mind) believe that someone did go to heaven and come back thus they disagreed with the poster I initially responded to.

You put “group mind” in quotes and accused me of classifying Muslims as some sort of that phrase. Not only have you been mistaken as to what I asserted to, you have deliberately broken the SDMB rule on presenting false quotes.

Now you may disagree that most Muslims believe what is written in the Koran and I have no cites to support the claim, but the answer seems a lot more obvious to me than whether or not there is free will in heaven.

[monavis]

@JohnnieEnigma

Because Lucifer was acting on his free will and going against God’s will… Lucifer wanted to be God. That was his sin… There is only one God.

Here is how the story goes… God told the angels that at some point in the future, he was going to have his son become man and that all the angels were to adore his son… Lucifer refused to adore Christ whom he considered to be a mere human. The whole notion of an angel having to adore a mere mortal human made him ill. So he rebelled against God. It was the sin of pride that brought down Lucifer… pride and stupidity.

Lucifer and his rebel angels were sent straight to hell… a place were the absense of God renders no hope. So that’s how it went down, apparently…

Oh,I see, if you use your free will and not God’s will then you are punished…hardly your will if you have to follow God’s or else.

It is just a story, as I do not think anyone was there to verify the fact. And How do you know God told the angles that he was going to create a Man? Didn’t some man write this? And couldn’t he be wrong or making it up?

Monavis

[Koxinga]

I’ve always thought it kind of funny how people will get mad and denouce God and then with the next breath assert that he doesn’t exist.

And sorry, but this is a minor irritant: it’s spelled a-n-g-E-L-s.

[monavis]

@Koxinga

In Judeo-Christian theology, do angels have free will in the same sense that humans are supposed to? Somehow I got the impression that there was a difference, but I can’t remember where. Something to do with how humans have both spirit and animal nature, making them uniquely able to choose to obey or disobey vs. angels purely spiritual nature.

I see it more like “as long as you live under my roof, you’ll abide by my rules.” The kid is free to choose, but not free to avoid the consequences of his choice.

In other words if he doesn’t follow the parents will he will be punished, and had no freedom of will until he is over 21.

Monavis

[Koxinga]

@monavis

In other words if he doesn’t follow the parents will he will be punished, and had no freedom of will until he is over 21.

Monavis

No, he’ll be kicked out of the house. Which (according to the story) is more or less what happened to Lucifer.

[monavis]

@Koxinga

I’ve always thought it kind of funny how people will get mad and denouce God and then with the next breath assert that he doesn’t exist.

And sorry, but this is a minor irritant: it’s spelled a-n-g-E-L-s.

Yes, I did make a typo and I should have checked, but like all creatures I guess I was created with flaws and If a God created creatures with flaws isn’t the creator to blame. If He know Satan and the Angels and humans were flawed then it was His fault not the creatures. If I make a faulty product I am to blame not the product.

Monavis

[Koxinga]

@monavis

Yes, I did make a typo and I should have checked, but like all creatures I guess I was created with flaws and If a God created creatures with flaws isn’t the creator to blame. If He know Satan and the Angels and humans were flawed then it was His fault not the creatures. If I make a faulty product I am to blame not the product.

Monavis

So I take it you do believe in God, so you can have someone to blame for your own shortcomings?

That’s one of the odder professions of belief I’ve heard, but whatever floats your boat . . .

[Mangetout]

@Koxinga

And sorry, but this is a minor irritant: it’s spelled a-n-g-E-L-s.

I know what you mean - it’s obtuse of me, but I find it so acutely annoying that I also find myself correcting that one almost by reflex.

[Koxinga]

Hark, the hare-lipped angels siiing
NYUHHH-NYUH-NYUHH, NU-NYU-NYU-NUUUH!

[monavis]

@Koxinga

No, he’ll be kicked out of the house. Which (according to the story) is more or less what happened to Lucifer.

God created Lucifer and since He knows all things he knew Lucifer would rebel there is a big difference. If Mrs Hitler or Osama’s Mother knew ahead of time their child would be responsible for such evils then they would be as much as fault as their children…same with God He is supposed to know All things in advance or the people who write about Him are wrong, and He doesn’t know all things.

Monavis

[monavis]

@Koxinga

So I take it you do believe in God, so you can have someone to blame for your own shortcomings?

That’s one of the odder professions of belief I’ve heard, but whatever floats your boat . . .

Everyone was born with shortcomings according to the Bible…remember original sin? I do not believe in the Bible although there is some good in it like most books, I just do not take it literally or as the Word of a God. It is what humans say is the word of a God. I take full responsibilities for my actions now that I am an adult, and if I do wrong I am the one to suffer the consequences of my actions.

Monavis