Kinda hard to avoid the matter when we’re talking about a political figure, ainnit?
Just out of curioiusity, for those who say or imply or wish that Bush is headed southward upon his death: Which modern presidents do you think WON’T be joining him?
This is your assertion, sure, and it seems to be a popular view. But can you show me any kind of proof that Bush’s religious views are in this fringe element of methodism?
You can back this up, right?
I think He’d say that you have an obligation to feed the poor, as does your neighbor. Taxation just happens to be an expedient means to the end. Unless and until private donations swell to unprecedented levels, this is unavoidable.
Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford both seem to be good candidates for heading the opposite way.
You know, I agree. And what does THAT say about successful vs unsuccessful presidents? :eek:
-XT
Not really. The issue is religious, the thread is aimed to gauge specifically christian responses. Your political opinion by all understandings of Christianity accepted by any sect of Christianity in the world has absolutely no relevance to whether or not GWB is going to heaven or hell, and I don’t think it takes a genius to recognize that fact.
Anyways, you basically made the assumption that any god that let X person into heaven isn’t deserving of worship. Which basically is saying any god that offers forgiveness isn’t worthy of worship. Which means you aren’t Christian (or if you are, you believe in a sick and perverted form of Christianity) so I don’t see how your opinion means anything at all in this thread.
Very good point. Even if I believed that people when to hell for sinning and failure to repent, which I do not - like Metacom I was taught Universalism, specifically the theory that there is no hell for any but the Devil himself; those who do not go to heaven simply cease to exist without eternal torment- the bible tells us not to concern ourselves with judging others’ souls since that’s God’s concern alone. I’m sure Bush has sins to repent for, as do we all, if he’d like to go to Heaven but I’ll leave it at that.
Actually, no. I appear to be wrong.
Bush is neither Fund’ist nor evangelical.
However, I think that the article I linked to does back what I think is the more important point, which is my belief that Bush’s Christianity is largely feigned in order to gain political advantage by scoring points with the Christian Right. He does very carefully couch his speech in Fund’ist/Evangelical terms, even though he doesn’t subscribe to that particular branch of Xian belief. He also does not attend church services regularly.
I was unaware of the modern military exemption clause to the laws of God. It is good to hear that I can kill anyone I choose as long as the government says it is ok. I am a little concerned to hear, though, that every Nuremberg defense is supported by this assertion. But, that is the beauty of religion, it will justify anything you want.
In my personal interpretation of Christianity, we are not allowed to judge anybody else, at all, ever. Period. Not that it never goes on of course, but based on what I believe, I try to avoid it if at all possible.
He is going to Hell only if he refuses to accept God’s mercy. Same as anybody else.
God forgives everything. But you have to let Him (which includes repenting, i.e., realizing and accepting your failures/sins/faults). And no, the idea is not to say “bah, since God will forgive me anyway I’ll go and kill me a few thousand people” - it’s that if you went and killed a few thousand people thinking it was the right thing to do, you have all eternity to realize it was not the right thing at all (that’s what us Catholics call Purgatory - the notion that you get a first judgment at your death, as in the saints that Revelations says are already in heaven before the final judgment, and a review at the final judgment).
Hope ya don’t get called for jury duty! G
Seriously, Jesus’s “Judge Not” passage starts Matthew 7- in which Jesus then goes on to tell us to not cast pearls before swine or give holy things to dogs, to beware false prophets, to know people by their fruits. In other words, Jesus warns us against judging until we know how to judge rightly, which is what he spends the rest of the chapter teaching us.
Thanks for looking into the matter more closely. I think it’s a given that Bush is not a fundamentalist or an evangelical. I do not think it necessarily follows, though, that Bush’s faith is less sincere or closely held by virtue of being more tolerant and ecumenical.
Paul Kengor has looked into the matter in some depth, from a Christian viewpoint, and has this to say about President Bush’s faith:
(Full disclaimer: Paul Kengor has been a personal friend of mine for many years.)
By the blood of Jesus.
Does the following Bush comment strike anyone else as rather odd? Or is this par for the course in the religious mindset?
Let’s be clear on the source of this quote. From the Washington Post:
There is more than enough room for different interpretations here.
Oops. Forget to include the link.
Did Bush or any of his underlings ever deny the accuracy of said quote? I’d be interested in such a cite if available.
RF: I don’t know if any denial was ever issued. The WP article I linked to said calls to the WH were unreturned. While it’s certainly possible that Bush did say it, or something like it, to Abas, I wouldn’t use it as a debating point unless there’s a legit news source reporting it as a straight up news story. I’ve only seen it in opinion pieces.
Fair enough, John. However, there are plenty of Bush quotes on the record, that reveal the extraordinary claim of him having a direct line to “God.”
Heaven Sent - Does God endorse George Bush ?
And plenty have…