Christians - What made you believe?

Great Debates
1

I have been reading a lot lately about Christianity and the historical record of Jesus.

It seems most Christians at a basic level believe that Jesus was God incarnate and he died for sins of man and was then he was resurrected.

However, the historical record is really unclear as to whether this is what Jesus even preached or that this was what the earliest Christians believed.

So, if you are a Christian do you believe:

  1. Jesus is God incarnate?

  2. Jesus died for the sins of the world?

  3. Jesus was resurrected?

If you do believe these things, do you believe that they are actual historical events or metaphors for a deeper truth?

What lead you to believe these things? Are your beliefs support by facts or faith? Do you think it takes a leap of faith beyond what can actually be known? What do you think of the work of historians looking at the life Jesus especially when they draw conclusion that are opposed to basic Christian beliefs?

2

[QUOTE=Jebus H. Christ]
I have been reading a lot lately about Christianity and the historical record of Jesus.

It seems most Christians at a basic level believe that Jesus was God incarnate and he died for sins of man and was then he was resurrected.

However, the historical record is really unclear as to whether this is what Jesus even preached or that this was what the earliest Christians believed.

So, if you are a Christian do you believe:

  1. Jesus is God incarnate?

  2. Jesus died for the sins of the world?

  3. Jesus was resurrected?

If you do believe these things, do you believe that they are actual historical events or metaphors for a deeper truth?

What lead you to believe these things? Are your beliefs support by facts or faith? Do you think it takes a leap of faith beyond what can actually be known? What do you think of the work of historians looking at the life Jesus especially when they draw conclusion that are opposed to basic Christian beliefs?
[/QUOTE]

Yes to all three, actual historical events, facts and faith support my beliefs, I do have to leap occasionally but not blindly so, and I don’t believe that any scholar approaching the Jesus Q does so without some bias- but amazingly some come to
conclusions opposite of that bias.

More later- this kinda coincides with my thread to the religious/spiritual folk here.

3

[QUOTE=Jebus H. Christ]
I have been reading a lot lately about Christianity and the historical record of Jesus.

It seems most Christians at a basic level believe that Jesus was God incarnate and he died for sins of man and was then he was resurrected.

However, the historical record is really unclear as to whether this is what Jesus even preached or that this was what the earliest Christians believed.

So, if you are a Christian do you believe:

  1. Jesus is God incarnate?

  2. Jesus died for the sins of the world?

  3. Jesus was resurrected?

If you do believe these things, do you believe that they are actual historical events or metaphors for a deeper truth?

What lead you to believe these things? Are your beliefs support by facts or faith? Do you think it takes a leap of faith beyond what can actually be known? What do you think of the work of historians looking at the life Jesus especially when they draw conclusion that are opposed to basic Christian beliefs?
[/QUOTE]

When I was a Christian I would have answered yes to all three although I never really understood exactly how #2 . I just assumed I would understand it better as time passed. In a way that’s what happened.

I think the message is that we are all God incarnate, in the sense that we are connected to God and each other. We are free from the sins of the world if we choose to be, and physical death cannot hold eternal spiritual beings.

Jesus came to show us by example, what we are.

4

Most of my family and friends are christians. It seems to me that they fall into two categories of belief:

1 - People who are into preserving traditional morality as tought in the Bible
a. People who want a faithful spouse.
b. People who want their kids to “grow up right”.
c. People who are against smoking, drinking, drugs, and other bad habits.
d. People who want to be part of a group of “good” people.
e. People who want to feel morally superior to others.

2 - People for whom the gospel story touches their heart/soul/spirit in some significant way, much like fans of Star Trek, Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings.

Neither of these types care whether the Bible is true or not; they believe because it fits their world view.

5

Pretty much what FriarTed said. I do believe that they were actual historical events. I’m not sure what empirical proof could exist of a resurrection. Again, a leap of faith but not a blind one.

6

"1 - People who are into preserving traditional morality as tought in the Bible
a. People who want a faithful spouse.
b. People who want their kids to “grow up right”.
c. People who are against smoking, drinking, drugs, and other bad habits.
d. People who want to be part of a group of “good” people.
e. People who want to feel morally superior to others.

2 - People for whom the gospel story touches their heart/soul/spirit in some significant way, much like fans of Star Trek, Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings.

Neither of these types care whether the Bible is true or not; they believe because it fits their world view."

I have to say that while I agree there are Christians who may be so for the reasons state above, it would be presumptuous to say that the faith is held because soley because it fits with a world view. I am a Christian with a very strong faith who knows that a-e won’t be “cured” by attending church on Sunday and sticking a fish on your car. Likewise, a faith spurred by a “heart-touching” story isn’t much of a faith at all.

7

  1. I do believe that Jesus is God Incarnate, not because my catechism says so, but because this is the conclusion that I’ve come to after years of intense introspection and questioning.

  2. I do believe that He died for the sins of the world. Many people have trouble grappling with this notion. They think, “If God truly is good and loving, how could he subject his own son to such suffering?” This is how I see it. I don’t believe it in the sense of the Old Testament notion of someone having to physically be sacrificed to atone for our sins, in that Jesus absolutely HAD to be killed, as would have been required of the Jews (ritual animal sacrifice) or certain pagan religions (human sacrifice). Rather, what astounds me is the fact that Jesus voluntarily and willingly sacrificed himself. It was the most altruistic act in history. He had died not to satiate the blood-thirst of a vengeful God whose abode was in the sky, but so that, by the utter profundity of His act, we would all listen to it and be redeemed by it.

  3. I do believe that Jesus was resurrected. Having come to the belief that He is God, it is not a far-off notion for me, and this only mutually reinforces my other beliefs.
    As to the lack (but certianly not void) of historical documentation on Jesus, I have this in resonse. Israel in the centuries before Christ’s coming had been a continually subjugated land since; the Assyrians, the Babylonians, and (at Jesus’ time) the Romans had all had their share of ruling over the little Jewish nation. In such dreary, and often tumultuous times, times without much of a bright future being envisioned, the Jewish people found the notion of a savior, or Messiah, who would break them from their bondage, to be very amenable. There were literally dozens of individuals in those desperate times who claimed to be the Messiah. Of course, it became apparant that none of them (save Jesus) were who they claimed to be. Consequently, historians, both Roman and Jewish, saw little of importance in recording these various faux-Messiahs, because they were so common and none of these Messiahs’ followings had any effect long after the demise of the leader himself. And being that Jesus and his Way, at first glance, had no political effect on the status quo (and He had just been ignominously executed on a cross), no effort was “wasted” on writing about Him and his Christians (that is, until they became a “nuisance” and later a “threat” to Rome).