Where in the year do historians place Christ’s birthday? I understand it was actually in the summer. And, how did it end up where it is celebrated today?
Google on birth date Christ | Jesus
first hit: The Birth Date of Christ
second hit: The Date of Christ’s Birth
third hit: The Date of Jesus’ Birth
Continue until satisfied.
Historians? Historians find only vague, indirect evidence that Jesus even might have existed. If he did, and considering that the gospels describing it were written many decades later and incorporated their themes, including the nativity story, from pre-existing pagan religions, I don’t think this is a question for historians.
If you want to try to squeeze information out of the gospels themselves, go ahead, but don’t call it history.
A little harsh, dontcha think? Historians have pretty effectively identified that an influential spiritual leader named Jesus existed, and pinpointed his birth to the 4 BC range, with the typical numbers of dissenters.
There’s little if any completely-uninfluenced-by-Christianity indication that Jesus lived, but that is hardly surprising – it’s true for almost any ancient figure except a few warlike monarchs that only their followers were inclined to write about them. There’s roughly twice the evidence in favor of Jesus as there is for Socrates, for example, and with about the same degree of reliability (setting aside the idea of miracle stories, etc., and dealing just with the idea of documentation of historicity).
It has to be remembered that most Christians celebrate December 25 (or January 7, in the East) as the holiday commemorating his date of birth, but in very much the same sense that a Brit celebrates the Queen’s Birthday in June – it’s known to be very likely erroneous, but is a consensus date for a celebration most people want to keep holiday on but nobody knows for sure the precise proper date for. There’s a strong likelihood that, if the Lucan narrative is at all reliable (and there are arguments about this as well), it took place in the spring, at lambing season, since that’s when shepherds would have been keeping watch in the fields with their flocks all night.
As to why December 25, there’s a truly bizarre story associated with this: one of the early chronologists set the Crucifixion (or it may have been the Resurrection; explanations differ) as having happened on March 25. Since Jesus was by definition perfect, said he, it follows that his time on Earth had to be exactly 30 (or 33) years-- hence the Annunciation of his conception occurred on March 25 (as in fact it is celebrated by the churches that keep it as a feast). Exactly nine months later would be December 25. Q.E.D.
The fact that this date is convenient for two reasons: it is the day on which the length of daylight (in the Northern Hemisphere) first becomes perceptibly longer, after the Winter Solstice, and it fell on or shortly after the Roman feast of Sol Invictus (AKA Saturnalia) celebrating that. Therefore, not only is it theologically/chronologically appropriate to celebrate December 25, but it provides a Christian holiday to substitute for the old pagan holiday.
There are, of course, a lot of assumptions packed into that account, and nobody with an interest in fighting ignorance is going to be prepared to put up a logical defense of them. But it is historically the background reason behind the selection of the date.
By the way, Jesus, as a good Jewish boy, was circumsized and given his name on the eighth day of his life, which was a week after his date of birth. Taking the 12/25 DOB, that means he was circumsized on January 1. Forty days later, on February 10, falls the date when Jesus was presented at the Temple as a firstborn son, and Mary received the ritual purification from the “uncleanness” (a poor translation – it’s actually “set apart as holy”/“received back into the community” in nature) of childbirth. This is Candlemas.
The Master speaks on the related topic of Why do we celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25?
Own own foray into this topic includes: Why is Christmas on December 25?
(And the linked article to the Catholic Encyclopedia on Christmas includes an entire section addressing the Origin of Date of Christmas (just over half way down the page) with a number of alternative dates with the reasoning behind each.
I wasn’t aware of that, and I’d like to know more. What were they basing that on? I mean, I think that it’s likely that there was a leader around that time, because within a few decades he had developed a following, and his actual real existence seems more plausible that the following having developed without that basis. But that’s far from a historical identification.
Why do I even bother to provide links if you’re not going to read them?
I don’t know much about Socrates, but in his case, we have copious writings from his student Plato about conversations they had. They serve as documentation of actual words that he spoke. We have nothing comparable for Jesus that I’m aware of.
[Minor hijack]
Kudos to Polycarp for his excellent summary. I’ve recounted that bit of history many times, but never as well or as concisely.
Years ago I ordered purchased a bronze Roman coin from a catalog. The details of what I would be getting were pretty scarce, but it was only about $25, so being a rabid Romanophile, I wasn’t too picky. And I was pleasantly surprised by what I did get. So pleased, in fact, that I’ve carried this coin in my wallet as a conversation piece for over 10 years.
The coin is a bronze as from the reign of Canstantine I. On the obverse is a portait of the emperor. On the reverse is a figure of Sol Invictus.
So on one side of the coin is the first “Christian” emperor – or, at least, the emperor who made Christianity legal. On the other side is the god whose feast was celebrated on December 25.
Hey, I thought it was cool.
[/hijack]
The Jews in Jesus’ time did not celebrate birthdays. As I understand it, they thought of birthday celebrations as being decadent self-aggrandizement, and they type of thing Roman emperors and pagan kings did to show how great they were. It wasn’t until a few hundred years after Jesus’ death that a solid majority of Christians felt that remembering his birthday would be a good idea.
Along these lines, I’ve heard historians theorize that the fact that the shepards were near the city meant that it was still early in the year. Supposedly, the sheep herds moved farther and farther out as the “grazing season” went on, and in the fall or early winter they would probably be too far away to go visit Jesus.
The winter solstice theory seems most likely. It’s a common theme in mythology, a sign of a rebirth, a new beginning.
Without making any claims for the accuracy of Christian writings, I would point out that all we have from Plato are the words that Plato would like for Socrates to have spoken. They are only marginally better (if substantially longer) than the words in the synoptic Gospels.
If I was going to substantiate Socrates, I would be much more likely to look at the fact that Aristophanes mocked him than that Plato claimed to have quoted him.
Agreed about the content of the speech – for all we know the wit and cleverness are more due to Plato than to Socrates. But the fact that we have the writings of a direct pupil is significant, as is the fact that we have the writinmg of a contemporary, Aristphanes.
But it’s often forgotten that we have the writings of yet another pupil – Xenophon.
Socrates isn’t as good in Xenophon as in Plato, which means either than Xenophon isn’t a good reporter or that Plato is partially responsible for Socrates’ fame.
And by the same token, John the Baptist, who according to the gospels was 6 months older than Jesus (or at least, conceived 6 months earlier), has his birth feast celebrated on June 25.
Bingo. And it’s a fairly consensus opinion that to some really substantial extent (though we are unsure to precisely what extent), Plato used his Dialogues – which were fictive recreations of conversations Socrates may or may not have had – to convey his (Plato’s) own understanding of metaphysics, ethics, politics, etc. – the stuff of philosophy. The only other extant references to Socrates are some writings by Xenophon, another disciple/student, and a couple of passing references in other writings, after the fact, that suggest Athenians knew of someone named Socrates who was a controversial teacher.
Explain to me in what way that differs from data regarding Jesus. Four accounts of life and teachings, each slanted to portray him in a way congenial to the tastes of the writer, and a few debatable references in other works (e.g., Josephus).
My point is not that the historicity of Jesus is proven, but that the evidence for it is about on a par with that for Socrates.
And no, we don’t have “documentation of actual words that he spoke” in either case – unless you regard the content of the repertorial writings as verbatim, probably a fraudulent assumption for anything more than brief “sound-bites” (pericopés).
Well, one way is that we know who the authors writing about Socrates were – Plato, Xenophon, and Aristophanes, identified ion their works – and have copious references to them as well.
Whereas the authors of the gospels aren’t identified in their works, and have to be inferred. Most, if not all, of the Letters in the New Testament are generally believed by many scholars not to be by their purported authors (aside from Paul, who never met Jesus).
And the writings on Socrates don’t portray him doing anything miraculous.
A better analogy to the case of Jesus Christ would be Apollonius of Tyana, who was said to perform miracles, and whose disciples didn’t write anything (or at least anything that’s survived).
I don’t know when it was, but it was held at Chuck E Cheese.
Jesus’ physical existance is at the very least ‘in question’. Too many vague, biased, or questionable sources are used to say anything definite.
Its long, but theres some good info here.
For me, it’s because ALL you provide is links. Write a 1 sentence summary, and I’m likely to read your link. Type “From Google” before some links, and I totally disregard you. It comes across only slightly more civilized the a statement of “Google is your friend”