Greetings to the Teeming Millions.
My question to you is as follows: How would one go about creating a legally recognized church?
I wish to start the First National Church of Libertarian Saturation. The purpose of this church will be to serve as a forum for the opposition of laws which are based solely upon religious views. Those laws which proscribe activities that harm no one’s person or property, but are based solely on religious bias.
In addition we plan on using the mechanisim of the church to twist those laws which give churches special dispensation to ignore other laws. We will do this in order to enhance the “congregation’s” financial well being. Imagine… make a tax free donation to the church, the church buys a house on property which it doesn’t pay taxes on, and the decon of the church, who made the original donation of course, is allowed to live on the property for free in return for his miniscule “services” to the church.
Please help me to subvert the laws of this country’s government.
Why don’t you ask the Scientologists about their legal bills, first? Running a fake church is expensive! I wouldn’t try it if your source of expertise is an internet bulitin board, either. The feds do read these things you know. Sure you can get rich doing it, (again, just ask the Scientologists) but not from your own money. You gotta find some dupes to scam. Don’t expect much help here if that’s your bussiness plan.
My primary objective is not to make money, it would be a nice aside if possible, but not if illegal. The idea is to use a churh to oppose religion based law which proscribes consentual crimes. Even if no financial gain is possible in using the laws which give churches special priviliges (sp?), then it might still be possible to use those laws to embarass the government. The point is that laws which give churches special dispensations and those which oppose the individual’s pursuit of happiness, go aginst the spirit, if not the letter of the Constitution of the United States.
I have often wondered this very same thing. Except in my Church, everyone would worship me. I also wonder about running for President on a web site just to see how many votes I could get. (Although I really don’t want to be President)
Welcome to the SDMB StageMage!
I don’t know if you mean to be amusing or are halfway serious but with all due respect what you are really asking, in essence, is how to perpetrate a financial scam. While there are doubtless several of the teeming millions who could give you expert advice on the practicalities of this enterprise and the hearty laugh that will be enjoyed by both the IRS investigators and yourself as your new friend Bubba endeavors to make you a real woman, I think IMHO or MPSIMS might be a better place to place this post.
Astro
You are right about one thing. I was halfway serious, but the financial scam was supposed to be the funny part. The point of the exercise is to attempt to make a statement. Use a church to oppose what churches have been doing since time immeorial, that is, using their influence to hve spurious laws created which make consentual acts illegal.
Examples: Gambleing, homosexuality, prostitution, etc. Virtually every blue law or vice crime there is has no basis in logic. The only reason for declaring anything a crime is that it infringes upon, or causes harm to, the person or property of another.
Point of order. My views DO NOT involve crimes which involve children. They do not have the knowledge or experience to give consent. Thats why we call them children.
Hmmm…There was someone in my state a few years ago who tried to start a church which used marijuana sacramentally. Evading drug laws was their raison d’être, but they claimed that they were nevertheless genuinely using it for spiritual purposes, and that if the Indians could do it with peyote, they could do it with pot. I’m not sure exactly what happened to them, but I think they gave up after awhile due to excessive hassiling by “the man.”
My point is, whatever your goals, it’s gonna be pretty darn difficult and expensive, especially if you go into public fora and announce to the world that your only reason is to flout the law. You’d better have a really good lawyer and money to pay her with.
OTOH, if you just wanted to start a discussion on laws against “victimless crimes,” you should move over to Great Debates, where you will find many of us ready to argue in favor of at least some of them based entirely on logical reasoning. A quick search will reveal countless such discussions that have already occurred, and you should peruse at least few of them before trying to start another.
Alan
My purpose was what I stated, I really would like to know the legal means to create a church. However, I’m always willing to enter any debate about victemless crime and will be hopping over there right now.
The Rastafarian churches of Jamaica have had an extremely hard time getting recognized because of their Cannabis use and US pressure on the matter.
So I guess it doesn’t matter where you are these days, you can’t get legally high in church. God damn this world! 
— G. Raven
You want to set up an organisation that exploits the financial and legal breaks given to religious bodies in order to abolish those very same breaks?
Doesn’t that mean that as you become more successful in this mission, you will also necome less powerful?
Gambling - addictive habit that causes people to risk thier life-savings in the hope of hitting the jackpot, often leaving their family without any means of support…
Prostitution - provides the population with sex on demand, leading to the breakdown of committed relationships because one or other partner is cheating sexually…
Fairly harmful… but that’s just my opinion…
Gp
Yes. Every single man that ever goes to a prostitute is either married or in a deeply committed relationship. Without exception.
And no one would have meaningful relationships or marry if they could just pay for dirty sex. No one at all cares about anything else. Just look at Holland.
:rolleyes:
— G. Raven
Former Scientologist weighing in here. There are many and extremely valid ground on which the Co$ can be attacked, but please, if you’re going to attack them, know your enemy. The mainstream churches are far richer than the Co$ will ever be, they just choose to spend their money on good works rather than destroying anyone who disagrees with them. They also have MUCH better architecture than the Co$.
Fomrer Sea Org member AOSH ANZO reporting for duty 
Right here is where you’re going to have a problem. While the courts have ruled several times that the government has no business declaring which religions are legitimate and which aren’t, starting a religion for the purpose of political action is going to look a bit, um, insincere. While I agree with you that victimless crimes are largely on the books for religious reasons, it sounds like you want to form a political action group, not a church.
Here’s what you need to do. Go out into the desert (or local equivalent) and fast for awhile. Come back a mess, declaring that God has come to you in a vision. It seems to me that you’ll have more success if the god who visits you is someone already pretty well known. Cthulu will probably not be taken seriously by the courts, though. During your vision, the deity of your choice will have given you a list of things your followers ought to believe, possibly a list of things your followers should and shouldn’t do, and maybe your god will even dictate a sacred text, or declare a new way to interpret an existing one.
After this, you need to get a few followers, and consult an accountant and/or lawyer about keeping in compliance with tax laws.
In other words, your political actions have to spring from your religious beliefs. If it’s the other way around, you’re probably out of luck.
You might consider a ULC ordination–the ULC’s list of beliefs is pretty inclusive–they believe that anyone who feels called to be a minister is a minister, and they believe that everyone should do what they believe is right. They’ve already fought bunches of court battles and straightened out their tax status. If nothing else, you can learn the ropes from them, and then have your vision later, breaking off into a new church. It’s a thought, anyway.
Good luck!
No to make a GD hijack but-
Ummmmm… no. Where in the world did you get the idea that stigmatizing or criminalizing certain purportedly “victimless” behaviors lacks “logic”. It’s perfectly logical for those who believe that if so called “victimless” crimes have incipient or actual negative social impacts beyond the self centered view of the “non-victim” they should be subject to formal social constraints in the form of laws relating to these behaviors.
Whether or not a specific behavior is deemed to be “victimless” is a huge can of worms. In the real world lots of things other than “person or property” crimes are fair game for criminalization or legal sanction depending on what the prevailing social consensus is regarding these acts.
If you want to legalize prostitution etc you need a PAC not a pew.
How does one go about starting a church? I’m suprised Loompanics hasn’t published a “DITY Church Handbook for the Masses,” but if someone wrote it I’m sure they would.
I’ve always wanted to start my own church, too, though not for such dubious reasons. What’s the scoop?
Mangetout:
You are bsolutely correct. The purpose of this church would be to become incrementally less powerful. Ultimatly, neither my churh, nor any other, would be allowed to flout those laws which apply to the rest of the country simply by merit of being a religious orginization.
grimpixie:
Yes these things are sometimes harmful, when carried to extremes. However, they harm the person or property only of those who freely engage in them. There is no assurance, in either the U.S. Constitition or our Declaration of Independance which would imply that you have the right NOT to be offended or embarrased by other peoples actions. There ARE however, statements which grant assurance that your physical and social freedoms shall not be infringed upon by another’s taking offense at your actions.
lestrange:
Thank you very much. This has been the only comprehensable answer to the actual question in this entire thread. But I still seek the legal routes that need to be taken
Are you saying that you want to create a group that will advocate for changes of legislation? Then why does it need to be a religious group?
If you want to create a tax-exempt religious organization, then check with the IRS.
Also you will note in [7.8.2] 3.6.2 that tax exemption may be denied to a “religious organization engaged in substantial legislative activity”.