Cigarettes in the drive through. (Or: is Mr. Krebbs a big fat jerk?)

[Jodi]

@stpauler

Says the poster who also said:

:rolleyes:

You’ll have to be a bit more articulate in the eye roll if you expect me to respond to it. In case I was unclear, to the extent my panties are bunched, it’s because of smoke, not the sight of cigarettes. Do I enjoy having to wade through a dense cloud of smoke because smokers who are made to smoke outside then smoke up the vestibule of my building? No, I don’t. I can’t get too worked up about it, though; it’s just another daily inconvenience and IMO an example of (what I hope is unconscious) inconsideration. I’m not someone who shrieks at smokers or even throws them dirty looks – in part because I know their behavior is prompted by addiction. But if they decided to pass a law directing the smokers to move away from the door, I’d be okay with that.

[Jodi]

@DianaG

For the record, I’ve never said that *the cashier *was wrong. She wasn’t. My rant is directed at people like Lightning and Captain Carrot who insist that it’s rude to smoke in your own car because they might be behind you in traffic and smell it. You know, **crazy **people.

And I never said the OP’er was a jerk, either. It seems like maybe that’s worth repeating.

[Captain_Carrot]

@DianaG

For the record, I’ve never said that *the cashier *was wrong. She wasn’t. My rant is directed at people like Lightning and Captain Carrot who insist that it’s rude to smoke in your own car because they might be behind you in traffic and smell it. You know, **crazy **people.

Cite that I actually said that? I usually consider what I say before I say it, and that doesn’t sound like something I’d say.

[DianaG]

@Captain_Carrot

Cite that I actually said that? I usually consider what I say before I say it, and that doesn’t sound like something I’d say.

You didn’t, Lightnin’ did, my apologies. Although you did say that cigarette smoke smells worse than exhaust, so I don’t withdraw my “crazy”.

And apologies to Lightnin’ for previously misspelling his username.

[Captain_Carrot]

@DianaG

You didn’t, Lightnin’ did, my apologies.

It happens, I’ve done it myself.

@DianaG

Although you did say that cigarette smoke smells worse than exhaust, so I don’t withdraw my “crazy”.

I’ve smelled different kinds of cigarette smoke and different kinds of exhaust. The best cigarette smoke is worse than the worst exhaust.

[DianaG]

We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’d take a room full of the vilest cigarette smoke possible over bus exhaust from half a block away any day.

[Lightnin]

@DianaG

My rant is directed at people like Lightning and Captain Carrot who insist that it’s rude to smoke in your own car because they might be behind you in traffic and smell it. You know, **crazy **people.

Hey, backatcha, babe.

My point was that smokers seem to be completely unaware of just how far and strongly the smell of cigarette smoke carries. You say you can’t understand how we can smell it over, say, vehicle exhaust? We wonder how you can smell anything.

We can smell it on your clothes. We can smell it in hotel rooms after you’ve left. We can smell it through walls, in some apartments. We can smell it if we’re in the car behind you if you’ve got the windows open. We can smell it when we step outside the office and have to walk through the Gauntlet of Butts. You people stink, and the only reason you aren’t aware of it is because you smell like that all the time.

Most of the time, we put up with it. When you start complaining that your rights to stink up the environment are being taken away, though, we reserve the right to tell you just how fucking inconsiderate you’re being.

I’ve met nice smokers. Some of my friends smoke. I even occasionally go outside with some of my smoking coworkers (and stand upwind). That, I can handle, and I don’t say a thing to them about it. But when some stranger gets all up in arms that he’s a repressed minority and the very act of not smoking in some public place is akin to making him drink from a different water fountain or ride in the back of the bus, that’s when I get a bit touchy.

I know that you don’t give a shit. I know that you feel you’ve got a God-given right to smoke wherever, whenever you want, and that anyone who says “boo” to you is clearly being overly touchy and needs to get a life. I know that you’re reading this post over and over, trying to find some niggling little detail that will allow you to sneeringly dismiss my statements as that of a “crazy person”. That doesn’t change the fact that smoking is inherently a rude habit which affects everyone else, whether the smoker is aware of it or not.

Smoking is dying out- hell, *smokers *are dying out. Laws are being passed all over the country that will make your addiction harder and harder to satisfy. Some day, maybe even you will decide that smoking just isn’t worth the hassle. That day can’t come soon enough, if you ask me. Find a vice that isn’t equivalent to purposefully farting in public, and you won’t hear a peep out of me.

[Shodan]

@Lightnin

My point was that smokers seem to be completely unaware of just how far and strongly the smell of cigarette smoke carries.

I don’t think that smokers are unaware of the fact that you can smell cigarette smoke, just that whether or not you can smell the smoke isn’t important. That is to say, the only basis you have to try to affect other people’s habits is if it harms you in some significant way. Smelling smoke doesn’t do that.

You can certainly say something if you like. Just don’t take it the wrong way when you are told to mind your own business, politely or otherwise.

Regards,
Shodan

[Jodi]

@Shodan

I don’t think that smokers are unaware of the fact that you can smell cigarette smoke, just that whether or not you can smell the smoke isn’t important. That is to say, the only basis you have to try to affect other people’s habits is if it harms you in some significant way. Smelling smoke doesn’t do that.

But who decides whether we are “harmed in some significant way”? Despite the impression I might be leaving, but as I’ve said before, I’m really not a militant non-smoking Nazi, though I generally dislike the habit as it impacts me. If I’m in a bar downing beers, or in the home of a smoker, or standing around outside but just in a smoker’s proximity, I don’t really think I have grounds to complain.

But here’s my current situation: I live in a ground floor apartment. Just last week, new neighbors moved in right above me. They like to smoke in bed, or at least in their master bedroom. The reason I know this is because my bedroom now smells like stale smoke all the time, and not-so-stale smoke if they’re up there having a cig. It smells very distinctly, and it smells bad.

The argument that they have the right to smoke in their own home is obvious. But don’t I have a right to have my home free of smoke? They are not trying to inconvenience me or make me uncomfortable – but they are.

My solution is to move out at the end of the month, a move that was already planned but nicely coincides with this, the last of several problems I’ve had in the apartment. But what if I couldn’t do that?

I understand smokers’ need to smoke, I honestly do. I know it’s an addiction – worse than heroin, so they say. But I do feel like smokers underestimate how distasteful and intrusive their habit can be, even when they don’t mean to be intrusive, even when they can’t help it. It’s no big deal to them, so they assume it’s not big deal to everyone else – or, if it is big deal to others, they’re being oversensitive and crazy.

I don’t know what the solution is. I know you guys have to smoke. I know there’s no point in making you feel awful about it. But maybe if we non-smokers tried not to make you feel like cancer-causing pariahs, you could try not to dismiss our complaints as if they’re not a legitimate, if only to us?

Just a thought.

[Shodan]

@Jodi

But who decides whether we are “harmed in some significant way”?

ISTM that the burden of proof is on those who want to prevent the smoking.

I empathize that you have to move because your neighbors smoke. On the other hand, that is a little different from handing a Macho Grande to the Smoking Man from X-files.

As I am sure you are well aware, there is a significant difference between “that is hurting me” and “I don’t like that”.

There are lots of things that all rational people agree are offensive - cigarette smoke, Crocs, the floats in the Gay Pride parade - but part of the social contract that allows us to live in such close proximity to each other is the agreement that your choices are yours to make until they impact me.

Health concerns over second-hand smoke are one thing. Aesthetic distaste over other people’s unfortunate choices is another. Busybodying - the inability of some people to sleep at night because someone, somewhere, doesn’t give a fart thru a trumpet what they think - is quite another.

I have no idea how much of each factored into the Taco Belle’s attempt to stop the OP from smoking in the drive-thru. If it was health concerns, I don’t think she has much to stand on. And neither of the other factors entitles her to an opinion on what Mr. Krebs does in his own car.

IMO.

Regards,
Shodan

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Are you seriously suggesting that smoke is somehow traveling through your apartment ceiling?

Have you tried… closing your windows?

[stpauler]

@Jodi

A private car is obviously not, nor have I assumed it is. Are you arguing that both the cigarette and the smoke remain entirely in the car through out the interactions between the driver and the cashier? Because then I would ask how you imagine he paid for and obtained his food through the rolled up window.

If he was sitting in his closed car in a drive-thru, I suppose you could argue that he was not smoking in a public place, just as you could make the same argument if a person were smoking in their own personal plastic bubble while standing in a restaurant. But since the “space” we are talking about is neither the sealed car (the driver’s) nor the sealed restaurant (the cashier’s) but rather the air space in the drive-thru that both must use and breathe, the operative inquiry is whether the drive thru is a public space, not whether the car or even the restaurant is.

And 25 feet on a windy day could be as good as 5 feet on a calm day. It’s an obtuse argument you’re proposing.

You’ll have to be a bit more articulate in the eye roll if you expect me to respond to it. In case I was unclear, to the extent my panties are bunched, it’s because of smoke, not the sight of cigarettes. Do I enjoy having to wade through a dense cloud of smoke because smokers who are made to smoke outside then smoke up the vestibule of my building? No, I don’t.** I can’t get too worked up about it**, though; it’s just another daily inconvenience and IMO an example of (what I hope is unconscious) inconsideration. I’m not someone who shrieks at smokers or even throws them dirty looks – in part because I know their behavior is prompted by addiction. But if they decided to pass a law directing the smokers to move away from the door, I’d be okay with that.

I can’t make sense either way if you’re going to say two different things.

[Declan]

@5-HT

do we know that it’s even illegal? I got the impression from the OP that the state of Washington just has harsh laws about smoking, and thus he was guessing that it could be illegal.

Actually I would guess that the 4th amendment trumps any washington state or other state law for that matter.

Declan

[boytyperanma]

@Declan

Actually I would guess that the 4th amendment trumps any washington state or other state law for that matter.

Declan

I’m sure the 4th amendment could trump any state law if it were applicable. I’m very confused how you think it would apply to anything in this thread. There is no unreasonable search as the evidence of smoking is the complaint. There is no unreasonable seizure as no one is taking anything.

[Declan]

@boytyperanma

I’m sure the 4th amendment could trump any state law if it were applicable. I’m very confused how you think it would apply to anything in this thread. There is no unreasonable search as the evidence of smoking is the complaint. There is no unreasonable seizure as no one is taking anything.

Its the amendment thats most quoted in regards to banning smoking in your own premises, and or private vehicle. I did see the search and seizure parts when I went looking for it, how that affects smoking and the fourth I am not sure.

Declan

[The_Tao_s_Revenge]

@DianaG

Bullshit. Fragrance of any kind is a perfect correlation. Most of it smells like utter shit, and I’d be seriously amazed if Axe doesn’t cause cancer in the same doses that secondhand smoke does. Yet I’m subjected to it far more often than you are to smoke.

What cities do y’all live in where you can even smell a cigarette over the diesel? I’m guessing you don’t. You SEE a cigarette, and that’s all it takes to bunch your panties.

You have a cite for Axe is just as dangerous as second hand smoke, or you just blowing your smoke up our asses? Willful ignorance, and just making crap up to suit your fancy is what bunches my panties personally.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/secondhand-smoke/CC00023

Now show me the article warning of the dangers of cologne.

Regardless of what you call it, both types of secondhand smoke contain harmful chemicals — and a lot of them. Tobacco smoke contains more than 4,000 chemical compounds, more than 250 of which are toxic. And more than 50 of the chemicals in cigarette smoke are known or suspected to cause cancer. Included in secondhand smoke are:

* Formaldehyde
* Arsenic
* Cadmium
* Benzene
* Polonium

Here are a few more chemicals in secondhand smoke that might sound familiar, along with their effects on health:

* Ammonia — irritates your lungs
* Carbon monoxide — reduces oxygen in your blood
* Methanol — toxic when inhaled or swallowed
* Hydrogen cyanide — a potent poison that interferes with respiratory function

Ingredients of axe according to wiki answers (I happen to have a stick of ax deodorant and can vouch it says most of the same stuff)

Active ingredient

Aluminum Zirconium Tetrachlorohydrex

Inactive ingredients

Cyclopentasiloxane
PPG-14 butylether
Stearyl alcohol
Hydrogenated castor oil
PEG-8 distearate
Talc
Fragrance (parfum)
BHT

A googling found none of these ingredients are carcinogens. But the castor oil is evil.

[CanvasShoes]

@tumbleddown

1. Most localities which have smoking bans prohibit smoking within a certain distance of points of entry/egress of a building. Due to its specialized nature, one could reasonably include a drive-thru window in the category of point of entry/egress.

2. Not only does cigarette smoke affect the drive-thru cashier, when someone has a cigarette burning in the drive-thru line and their window open, the smoke affects the other patrons waiting in line for their food as well. And because of the nature of the drive-thru, those other patrons cannot keep their windows up to avoid that particular extra form of pollution.

bolding mine…

Yes!

As to the bolded line, BS!, if some inconsiderate jerk is polluting the drive through area, my window stays up until he’s gone. If he’s behind me, my window stays up until he puts it out! Yes, **Mr. Krebbs **is a big fat jerk! Just because your ciggy is hanging outside of your window you think there are some sort of little magic air fairies that come along and swirl the cigarette smoke away or something? JEEEZ! What is WITH you people? You can’t wait the few minutes it’ll take you to get away from the drivethrough (or grocery store exit) to smoke?

[atomicbadgerrace]

@CanvasShoes

As to the bolded line, BS!, if some inconsiderate jerk is polluting the drive through area, my window stays up until he’s gone. If he’s behind me, my window stays up until he puts it out!

Thank god the Polite Police are on patrol! I’m sure the Waaaah-mbulance won’t be far behind.

Just because your ciggy is hanging outside of your window you think there are some sort of little magic air fairies that come along and swirl the cigarette smoke away or something?

I guess you missed the part about how his cigarette was inside his vehicle, in his other hand.

Oh, and where I’m from, we don’t call them “little magic air fairies.” We call it the wind.

[CanvasShoes]

@Jodi

You’ll have to be a bit more articulate in the eye roll if you expect me to respond to it. In case I was unclear, to the extent my panties are bunched, it’s because of smoke, not the sight of cigarettes. Do I enjoy having to wade through a dense cloud of smoke because smokers who are made to smoke outside then smoke up the vestibule of my building? No, I don’t. I can’t get too worked up about it, though; it’s just another daily inconvenience and IMO an example of (what I hope is unconscious) inconsideration. I’m not someone who shrieks at smokers or even throws them dirty looks – in part because I know their behavior is prompted by addiction. But if they decided to pass a law directing the smokers to move away from the door, I’d be okay with that.

It wouldn’t work anyway. Our city ordinances state that smokers must be 40 feet from any public entrance. And yet they smoke right in front of the doors anyway. There’s a guy in our building who lights up as he’s exiting the elevator and going out into the lobby.

One of my coworkers and his girlfriend are two of the most polite smokers I’ve ever met, back when the bars still allowed smoking (and I was AGAINST the ban on smoking in bars), they would leave the table to smoke their cigs.

[CanvasShoes]

@atomicbadgerrace

Thank god the Polite Police are on patrol! I’m sure the Waaaah-mbulance won’t be far behind.

I guess you missed the part about how his cigarette was inside his vehicle, in his other hand.

Oh, and where I’m from, we don’t call them “little magic air fairies.” We call it the wind.

Right, the polite police. No, more like the “I refuse to be choked by someone’s poison” police, if you must name it.

As to the cig being in the non-window hand…Oh brother. Again, as many other posters have stated, the window is open, unless he somehow magically manages to conduct his transaction from within a closed vehicle, ergo, smoke will be exiting the vehicle.

As to “wind” yes, because it’s always present and always blowing the correct way.:rolleyes: