what is the reason different societies throughout history and adopted this technique for manhood initiation? I believe it is a sexual thing (less sensitive penis for longer lasting sex). but if that is true then how would they ever figure that out.
jartz, nothing personal (I see you’re new here) but please don’t get started on this. We have a troll on the Board who thinks he’s God’s Gift to Foreskins and we’ve had at least 16 pages of threads (if not more) devoted to this subject. He refuses to believe any information anyone gives him opposite his opinion and generally is beginning to make himself a nuisance.
Check in Great Debates and the BBQ Pit for this topic. I’m too lazy to do links right now. The Great Debate one is entitled (the most recent one anyway) “The Circumsicion Thread…Restored” and the one’s in the Pit are “Write JDT’s Sig” and “Jack-Ass Dean Tyler”. I know they don’t sound like it, but trust me, they are on topic.
Welcome, by the way.
I think this is the first time anyone has posted a GD question in MPSIMS! Its usually the other way around!!
Coldy! Coldy! be the first Mod to send a topic OUT of MPSIMS!!
Well, Great Debates is up to its foreskin in circumcision threads. I wouldn’t dare bother David B. and Gaudere with another one.
Luckily, the OP asks questions that can be answered by those in the know. So, off to General Questions it is.
And it happens all the time, Twisty 
no i am not asking about the debate on the procedure. I am wondering about the practice that seems to have been “discovered” by different cultures. assuming that it is done to maximize performance, then how did anyone figure that out? i read thru the other threads. never did get a good answer on why it is done (benefits vs cost). cant believe that primitive people were preoccupied with cancel rates. and for cleaniness , have you ever seen a bushman shower?
so basicly 2 questions:
- why ?
- who discovered it?
Generally, that’s the problem. People don’t agree on the “Why” and “Who”.
But to answer you, I don’t know the WHO but it was said to be started to curb (or stop) masterbation. (Lack of foreskin causes redused sensation in the ‘head’ of the penis.)
Now some people don’t agree, hence the GB starts again. (But hopefully not.)
**jartz wrote:
what is the reason different societies throughout history and adopted this technique for manhood initiation? I believe it is a sexual thing (less sensitive penis for longer lasting sex). but if that is true then how would they ever figure that out.**
I can’t answer “who” first discovered it, but as for “why” the Torah gives a pretty good answer: it was meant as a sign of the covenant between the J/X/I God and his followers.
One interpretation of the Torah (Old Testament)is that it includes LOTS of practices that help to identify the Isrealites as a distinct and unique culture to the Middle East. This includes various dietary and ritual practices of which circumcision is one.
If anyone can confirm on deny this; I’d like to hear it.
but i understood that other societies in africa/americas/bornea… developed the same practice. maybe i am mistaken. are you saying that the Jews originated it. I cant image the priest sitting around (inspired by God or not) and thinking up the idea as a way
to differentiate their followers from the neighbors. I would
have thought the other men would have said “no way jose”. unless they negotiated it down to doing the infant boys. but that wouldnt seperate them for years. and i would think they were more short sighted than that. i just dont buy it.
i am back to it being a sexual thing passed off as religious/cultural.
According to Desmond Morris, circumcision started as part of an ancient Egyptian snake worshiping cult. It was believed that snakes were immortal because they shed their skin. Circumcision was supposedly an homage to this snake renewal process. I don’t have a source for this other than Morris’s TV special The Human Animal. Most other places I checked listed the origin as unknown.
I have heard of some societies where it is a ritual of manhood. so its not restricted to babies. so I cant imagine how you can start something without doing it on yourself. I mean you cant make a rule that all men will have this done except yourself. i would think a leader would lose his following real fast. I dont think this is just a physical marking ritual. tatoos/scarring/piercing would be much easier to sell. (for me anyway)
No, I have never seen a bushman shower.
You know, come to think of it, I’ve never seen you take a shower either.
Jartz, the circumsision is purely ritual, it does not “enhance performance”**Q:(Lack of foreskin causes redused sensation in the ‘head’ of the penis(.**This is not true. He meant to say: “Lack of foreskin makes ‘conventional’ masturbation less convenient”. The “sensation” is the same and comes mainle brom the btain. I do not think that this consideration played any significant role. Or the “hygienic” aspect of it: although it’s true that penile cancer is unknown in circumsiced at birth men, the natural rate of penile cancet is so low that the difference between circumsised and uncircumsised population was discovered only ~50 years ago. Naturally produced smegma has “bad” smell(we do not argue about tastes), but I do not think than women of some tribes could not stand it to that extend, while other women accepted it. Some tribes scar their faces, some pierce body parts symbolizing something. Jews, alledgedly, symbolize their covenant with God, other peoples may symbolize something else, like puberty. Female “circuncision” (clitoridectomy, actually, cutting off the clitoris) has to do with sexual pleasure and is performed usually at puberty or with relation to marriage/sex. It’s origins are more obscure (for me), although the sensual consequenses are clear. I personally knew many men who got circumsized in adult life. Neither they, nor their wifes never mentioned any differenses. All were married, so no masturbation inconveniences were expressesed, but the former will be apparent if you try the “pumping” technique on yourself.
(Lack of foreskin causes redused sensation in the ‘head’ of the penis
The last (quoted) sentence is there by mistake. Disregard.
now you have lost me. what “pumping”? and how does circumcism prevent masturbation? i am still not convinced that circumcism is just a ritual that is practiced by diverse cultures. if i was inventing something to distinguish my tribe or manhood. i would lop off an ear or something. that is my problem. i just cant imagine elders in different parts of the world at different times dreaming up such a stunt. maybe i’m just over sensitive (in some places)
Jartz, I am always willing to answer questions, if I know the answers. I think that asking questions beats drinking beer, loitering or drugs. As far as circumcision goes: circumsiced men are not different than uncircumcised in “performance”*. Sexual activity with either ones is equally plesurable for women. I can challenge any chick or any recently circumsized male on this MB to deny that. As a body mutilation technique, circumcision is not different from face scarring or ear/nose/lip piercing, which are done for ritualisric reasons.
Circumcision does not “prevent” masturbation. Or any sexual/parasexual activity. I’ll explain “pumping” to you (“pumping” is the term I borrowed on this thread), but I hate to be known here as “Great Masturbation Teacher”. So, before our first session (if the mods will permit, GQ appears to be inappropriate place for any lessons), I’d like to know:
- How old are you?
- Are you circumsized?
- A different procedures are known which aim at “enhancing performance”. AFAIK, they are of recent origin, and anticeptically are more “evolved”. I also heard that female genital manipulation is practiced by some tribes, but do not have any personal knowledge on the subject.
forget the masturbation aspect. let me get back to the original question. i gather by the responses that circumcism is just a ritual multilation, practiced by diverse societies for different reasons (religion,manhood,…).
well I dont buy it. I still cant imagine that particular method randomly springing up throughout history. I maintain that it was done to satisfy the male urge for endurance. I think it desensitizes. It seems reasonable that something encased in a protective fleshy sleeve would be more sensitive than one being constantly rubbed on clothing. I dont think the women’s views were considered.
now IF that is true, then the question still begs: how did anyone ever figure that out. if it is the reason but not accurate then someone still had to try it out. did somebody get stuck in a beartrap and get snipped. if it is the reason but not accurate then someone still had to try it out. so the argument that it doesnt really enhance performance might not be valid. the perception that it did enhance is all that is needed.
Jartz, I am glad that you got a masturbation manual and do not need one-on-one instructions. You have a good analytical mind: if the hypothesis is not confirmed by observations, it might be wrong. Consider “the opposite end” approach: circumcision shortens sexual intercourse considerably. Would not “women liberation movement” started much earlier? After all, the right to long fucking beats the right to vote. As they say: “Who cares who is elected president! My husband is so circumcised, it gives me headaches!”.
Your last sentence indicates that you are on the right track: often, it is * the perception*, not the actuality. If you want to experiment, time yourself with and without condom (which takes you hypothesis one step further, as it isolates your glans skin completely).
the timing with/without condoms is the whole key. thats why condoms fail. and why i have so many kids. its not a manufactoring defect. its the unwillingness to wear them cause they desensitize. i think that the cut desensitizes you also.
as far as masturbation goes, i am married so thats her job now.
Jartz, you’ve got to be consistent. Whatever you blame your kids on.
I thought that “decensitization” is a good feature, in your opinion, at the root of circumcision. Now, you do not want to wear a condom, because it decensitizes. I’d rather use it: allows you to have your cake and to eat it too.