One of the Curb Your Enthusiasm episodes, Larry pockets a fork to take to his limo driver outside; but the owner of the restaurant spots larry and stays “please wait here . . . I’m calling the police.”
Larry waits and the police give him a citation to appear in court
QUestion: Couldn’t larry just throw a hundred on the table to pay for his meal, and then get out of town? What would happen when the police show up?
You could certainly run. Whatever kind of police response you provoke depends on the crime committed. Grand Theft Fork is unlikely to generate any sort of police pursuit unless it is a really slow day. Any place with security or loss prevention people can detain you, I’ve seen handcuffed benches at certain retail stores for that purposes.
However, if you know you were spotted doing your malevolent deeds in a particular establishment it might not be a good idea to return.
It’s my understanding, IANAL, that a citizen that is not acting in the capacity of a judge or police officer, has no authority to control your activities.
Security guard issues are kind of gray, tho, since they usually take you into some kind of custody, but, if somebody *tells *you to do something, and you do not do it, the police may hassle you, but I don’t think that they will do, or even try to do, anything to you for your leaving.
Best wishes,
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I believe many places have provisions for citizens’ arrests, but you are required to witness the crime yourself and I think it must be a felony. In that case you can detain the individual until the police arrive.
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Even then, though, an arrest is more than just telling someone not to leave. They’d have to actually try to detain you in some way.
It’s a free country. People can say whatever they want to you provided it is not a threat etc.
If you run, circumstances are no different than any other person that someone thinks may have committed a crime and hey call the police on. If the police have the time and inclination, they will track you down and get your side of the story; then they may charge you. Running may be brought up in court (if it gets that far) as evidence of guilt, while simply saying “Screw you, I don’t have time for this crap” and walking away would be simply evidence of an irate citizen.
A security guard has no more rights than any other private citizen,unless osme states have special laws.
If you citizen’s arrest someone, essentially detain them physically, you better be sure they committed a crime - hence the warning, you should have seen them commit the crime. Otherwise, you commit a crime against them; if you do it on someone else’s say-so, you are still the one doing the physical detaining and hence legally liable.
For someone being detained, there is the warning - if you respond to physical detention in a way that can then be interpreted as assault - push, shove hard, hit, punch, whatever - then physical attack trumps all minor theft charges. I suspect the police will be more interested in defending a local business owner than an aggrieved stranger from some other locale. If you don’t have the witnesses to back you up, be very very careful what you do. “reasonable” is in the eye of the beholder, or the judge.
My understanding is that in most states you’re permitted to detain a person under any terms that you’re able to make a citizen’s arrest; however, you can be found liable for false imprisonment or kidnapping or something if it turns out you knowingly detained someone on the basis of a citizen’s arrest on false premises.
(robber with gun) “Gimme your Money!”
(robbee with phone) "OMG I’m being mugged! I’m calling the police [tap tap, 9, 1,1]
(robber) “um…should I wait?”
IANAL - if you had no right to detain a person, then you are committing a crime by detaining them. If you honestly believed there was a reason to hold someone, then presumably you will likely not be found guilty. However, the say-so of someone else is not normally sufficient grounds. Seeing something that really looked like a crime usually is.
Here in Canada, generally, a person has no right to search you, either. If the store owner thinks you are stealing, and you refuse to show him what’s in your pockets (or a receipt, see other thread) then the store owner might detain you and call the police. He better be really sure that in fact you are concealing goods from is store, and he better do this outside the cash register, preferrably out the door. There’s no law about putting something in your pocket until you get to the cash register (it’s just frowned upon…) Again, the rule should be that the person who does the detaining should have seen the crime, and should have followed the person to be sure they did not unload he merchandise between the pickup and the door…
Mind you, there’s what I would call the “Oscar Wilde Principle” - it’s pretty foolish to stand your ground and insist on a court fight when you’re guilty as sin.
IANAL
There is something called Shopkeepers Privilege which may give a store a bit more leeway in detaining someone. But I don’t know if it applies to the situation in the OP.
Handcuff benches in a retail store? Really?
Is that legal? What is the legal definition of detaining a person accused of [del]shoplifting[/del] retail theft, for example? Are these handcuff benches in public view? IANNAL but I can see a lawyer having a field day with this one where someone “detained” in public view, handcuffed to a bench by store “security” as they await the police. Geez, talk about unwarranted public humiliation.
Oh yeah, you can sue their asses off for that.
But you have to have the money to hire a lawyer, and then convince the court.
You may well lose and be out the money.
Basically, if a Security Guard manhandles you, you retain the right of self-defense as they are NOT Law Enforcement Officers and do not have the right to detain you by force.
If they say “come with me”, you don’t have to go. They usually cannot legally force you*.
(*May vary by state)
If they have weapons and use them on you when you are not resisting or provoking, GOD HELP THEM IN COURT, because their ass is fried. It would be “resisting arrest” with a cop and they might have cause to take you down hard. With a Security Guard they’re just a pumped up Bubba with a toy badge. And I say that as someone who spent four years working in security, two of them armed.
OTOH, I spent over a year working Armored (Loomis). You fuck with those guys and they’re not only likely to ensure you cannot continue to mess with them, but the cops are going to treat you hard when they come, and laugh at any idea that the Armed guy was in the wrong. Our management straight out told us “If you get ‘jossled’ while carrying money, do what you have to do, and we’ll worry about what happened later. What is important is your safety.” (As long as they don’t draw their weapon over nothing, that is. still a big no-no.)
Of course, don’t fuck with Bouncers. The cops will just laugh at you.
Can you? That’s usually the signal that you should! 
The risk of walking away from somebody would be the possibility that a court would decide that the person had made a valid citizen’s arrest on you. If so, you could be charged with escaping from custody, which is a felony.
That said, I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t know if there are jurisdictions where being placed under a citizen’s arrest is considered a form of lawful custody. (It doesn’t appear to be in New York.)
No, not in public. They’re back with the offices.