My oldest daughter was born at the US Army hospital at Landstuhl, Germany (then West Germany). IIRC the documents we received and filed with the local recorder of deeds when we got back to the States were a German birth certificate, a certificate of some sort from the attending physician and a document from the State Department attesting to the birth of a child to US nationals overseas. These three papers, or copies certified by the recorder of deeds, were sufficient to establish her age, date of birth and nationality sufficiently for her to get a driver’s license and a US passport. The important thing is to file the papers with the local office that accepts, among other things, armed forces discharge papers to qualify for veterans’ exemption on real estate taxes.
My little sister was born at Fort Sam Huston, Texas. This was real trouble since at that time Fort Sam was an exclusive federal enclave by cessation by the State and was not part of the State (or republic) of Texas. Accordingly there was no Texas birth certificate for her. There may have been an entry on my mother’s medical charts, but other than that there was only a decorative certificate from the medical detachment adjutant. We had to establish her bona fidies with an affidavit from our mother and her high school transcript.
And 8 USC 1402 and other later amendments further qualify that in some US possessions – e.g. Puerto Rico – “jus solis” citizenship applies too, so everyone born there is Americans by birth.
(In our case, those who were alive in 1917 – my grandparents – were made Americans by Act of Congress; those born between 1917 and 1941 – my father – were born American by parental inheritance; and those born after 1941 – my mother and myself and siblings – have been American by our own birthright. )
I’m being nitpicky, but § 302 (8 U.S.C.A. § 1402) is not an amendment to the section I cited but rather another section. It establishes that all persons born in Puerto Rico after 4/11/1899 are citizens, and all persons born after 1/12/41 are eligible to be president. This section came into effect in 1952. Of course, there are almost as many portorriqueños en Nueva York que en Puerto Rico, y vivo en la Loisaida, so I wouldn’t exclude the portorriqueños if it were relevant to the topic of children born on military bases in Germany.
[A Bill]
Sect. 1: In the article originally posted by JRDelirious on 28 May 2002, after “8 USC 1402” strike “and other later amendments” and replace by: “and other later sections of the c. 1951 Immigration and Naturalization Act, including those which replaced and amended all or parts of sections of the earlier c.1940 Nationality Act, as well as other related statutes and amendments thereto,”
Sect. 2: This amendment shall go into force immediately upon ratification
Sect. 3: Notification shall be made to Opal pursuant to the rules and regulations of the SDMB
[/A Bill]
I was born in Panama in the Canal Zone in a military hospital. My parents had two birth certificates, one official and one from the hospital, and when they moved from Panama when I was 2, had me “naturalized,” and I was issued a “Certificate of Naturalization,” which I understand has now been replaced with the Consular Report of Birth Abroad as mentioned by flodnak and Monty. Apparently for a while there was a special certificate just for Canal Zone births.
My sisters used to tease me all the time that I couldn’t be President since I wasn’t born in the U.S. Of course, they couldn’t offer me any cites. It’s good to know I can now run for President! (Let’s see, now how to wipe the memories of all the friends I had in High School . . . )
BTW, in attempting to obtain a passport, I have been round and round with both INS and the State Dept. trying to get a certified copy or duplicate original of my Certificate of Naturalization becuase I do not trust the passport office or post office to return my original. After three months of frustration and even a call to my U.S. Senator, who just succeeded in muddying the waters, I finally just sent the darn original to the passport people. Sure hope they send it back.
§ 303 (8 U.S.C.A. § 1403) gives citizenship to any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904 to a citizen parent. But the fact that you were naturalized implies that you are not a “natural born citizen” - I can’t see why you would need a Certificate of Naturalization. Maybe it’s because that section didn’t come into effect until 1952.
Well, I hate to date myself, let’s just say it was the late 60’s. I guess my folks were just doing whatever they were told to do like good Air Force parents. Maybe the AF just kept doing the same paperwork year after year regardless of the law. I can’t believe my parents played with my ability to become President like that! Think if I tell the passport office about Sec. 303 they’ll get on with issuing my passport already so I can take my trip?
I’m not saying that the certificate changes anything - it’s just that you shouldn’t need one, if I’m not totally misunderstanding the statute. I’m thinking that they probably just continued to use the old procedure for a while after the law was passed. According to the passport webstie, if you are born abroad, you need either a Certificate of Naturalization or a Consular Report of Birth Abroad. It’s because it’s too hard for someone in the United States to know what a valid Panamian birth certificate looks like.
And I guess the difficulty in getting a certified copy from a foreign country. Although right now I don’t see how this could be any more difficult than getting the darn duplicate original or certified copy or whatever the heck I’ve paid the State Department $30 for but haven’t seen yet. My Congressman said I should fill out form 565-N or some such with the INS for a replacement certificate. I looked it up on their website: $155 for this! I attempt to call the passport office thinking they’ll know if what I want comes from the State Department or the INS; all they have is a $4.95 per call telephone number! Sorry about this little hijack; you can probably sense I’m a little put out about this.
So anway, **chula, **you’re saying the passport people need the Certificate of Naturalization not to prove I’m a citizen but because they can’t determine what a valid Panamanian (it’s in English) birth certificate looks like? I guess I could get copies of my parents’ birth certificates and prove my citizenship that way. Well it’s all moot for me anyway since I took a chance and mailed the original document to the passport office. Not to mention the absolute moot-ness of the issue of my being able to run for President. If only I had known a little earlier in life . . .
This varies by country. I stood in Ramstein Air Force Base last week and had a conversation with my son and daughter-in-law ( both active duty USAF ) about just this. They informed me that the current situation at least in Germany is that German Law dominates all on-base legal problems. The Germans work closely with US Military Police, but a law broken on base that violates German legal statue is a law broken, period.
For example. We left Ramstein and drove a few moments to a smaller US Army Base. When entering that base ( unlike Ramstein ), there were exactly zero US MP’s guarding the gates and doing ID checks. Instead we found ourselves facing German Polizei. They did the ID check, inspected the car and then waived us through. I asked about it and was told that it varies from base to base as to which police entity controls access.
Interesting. I’d also always thought that bases like Ramstein were essentially US Soil within a foreign nation. Not so in this case. I cannot speak for any other countries where the USA has military bases, but this is the arrangement that the US DOD has with Germany regarding all bases, USAF, Army and so on.
Not in the same sense as an Embassy. US bases overseas remain the sovereign territory of the geographical country, and the USA leases the rights to use them, with varying immunity to impediments according to the terms of the treaty.
The issue, as correctly stated in an earlier post, is that “natural born” refers to the totality of the circumstance of birth and whether it imparts natural citizenship on the child, not the geographic location of the obstetrics, which by itself is only one of several contributing factors…
Two of my children were born abroad and all they ever needed to get US passports, driver’s permits, etc. were the consular reports of US Citizens born abroad. The consular officer questioned my wife and me about our US residencies, but didn’t ask for proof, although I guess that could conceivably be questioned if one of them ran for president.
Actually in the part of Panama that was at the time the US-controlled Canal Zone. By an odd quirk of wording in the law in effect at the time, this made McCain not a citizen at the time of his birth, despite that fact that both his parents were US citizens.
At the time, the children of US citizens who were “born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States” were eligible to become citizens. The Canal Zone technically remained part of Panama, even though by treaty it was under US jurisdiction. Therefore children born there were outside the limits of the US, but not outside US jurisdiction, so the law didn’t apply to them. Ironically, if McCain had been born in Panama outside the boundaries of the Canal Zone he would have been a citizen.
The law was amended within a year of McCain’s birth to retroactively close this loophole and make people born in the Zone to US citizens automatically citizens. It is, however, arguable whether McCain would qualify as a natural born citizen. (I believe he would, since his citizen came from the circumstances of his birth rather than through naturalization, and Congress passed a resolution to that effect>0
Wait. Why “and never had any other citizenship” ? Obama had another citizenship as a child [though not overlapping with his presidential run]. McCain is a citizen of Panama, though as far as I am aware he does not claim or make use of his second citizenship.
It’s a moot point. The US does not recognized dual citizenships. Sometimes someone can be claimed as a citizen of another country automatically, but if you don’t formally give up your US citizenship, you remain a US citizen. So as far as the US is concerned, neither candidate stopped being US citizens.
McCain renounced his Panamanian citizenship. But Chuck is not saying that never having held foreign citizenship is a requirement, merely that it’s one of the factors a court would likely weigh. This is all pretty theoretical because no court has ever construed the natural-born citizen clause for this purpose - and it’s highly likely that they would call it a political question and refuse anyway (basically, the electorate gets to decide what “natural born” means.)
