Civ IV kinda' annoys me a little....

[glee]

@DKW

I haven’t played any of the Civilization games, but I do have a fair amount of experience with strategy/war games of various stripes. And while they obviously differ greatly in theme, presentation, scope, purpose, etc., there’s one thing that they all, ALL have in common: You cannot do your own thing. No matter how much leeway you have in your decisions, the game invariably has strict parameters as to what helps you or what hurts you, and if you want to accomplish anything at all, you will do what helps you. Buck the system (or impose your real-world ethos on it, which is sometimes even worse), and you’ll soon see the foolishness of your ignorance.

…

So if the game wants to have religion, there will be religion. My suggestion is to let it happen and then figure out what its purpose is. Money-making venture? Prestige? More content populace? More leverage in negotiations? Culture? Find out what it’s good for, and when you do, USE it! I mean, if it bothers you that much, you can pretend that you’re humoring a bunch of pitiful fools who don’t even realize they’re getting played.

While what you say is generally true.
However Civilisation is an incredible game, because you genuinely have many choices how to play and win.
The win conditions include military victory, land domination, culture domination, first into space and being elected UN Secretary-General.

I have won games of Civilisation 4 having founded all seven religions;
I have won games of Civilisation 4 never having any religion.

I have won games of Civilisation 4 having huge armies;
I have won games of Civilisation 4 having just one unit guarding each city.

I have won games of Civilisation 4 with huge numbers of cities;
I have won games of Civilisation 4 with just a few cities.

I have won games of Civilisation 4 having many allies;
I have won games of Civilisation 4 with no allies.

P.S. I refuse to use Slavery (moral decision), although all the computer players use it at some point. I can still beat them!

[glee]

@Tristan

If you can hold off on making a second city, you can get Bhuddism, Hinduism, and Judaism in on city. Then the great prophets to make the special temples for your Hindbudhjudaism in that one city, and make a frickin’ mint of cash.

If you can make it to Hindbuhconjusaism, it’s even better.

N.B. If you build a second city before discovering any religion, all your religions will be founded in that second city (assuming you don’t build a third city).

However the problem with putting all your religions in one city are:

• you can’t risk building new cities until you’ve discovered as many religions as you want - which slows your development
• the other cities get no cultural benefit from having their own religion, so they don’t expand their cultural borders.

If you play a Spiritual civilisation, you can switch Civics and Religions without penalty. So if you have a religion in each of several cities, you can switch your State religion between all of them until each city has expanded their cultural borders as far as you want.

[glee]

@Little Plastic Ninja

Even before I converted to the legions of the religious, I loved religion in Civ 4.

Step 1) Found every religion in the world. Make this your number one goal.

Step 2) Use your Great Prophets to build the uber-temples in the originating cities. For every city in the WORLD (not just in your civilization, I believe) with that religion you get an extra money unit per turn.

Step 3) Sit back. At the point you have created every one of these temples (I usually manage this by the 17th century or so) you will be getting money for every city in the world with any kind of religion.

I suppose you had better include Step 0: Play Arabia or Spain.

Yes, the benefit for having the Holy Building does apply to every city in the World with that religion.

However you have to create 7 Great Prophets before you can build all 7 buildings.
Although yours is a fine money-making system, I prefer to diversify my Great Leaders:

• a Great Engineer can build a Wonder in one turn
• a Great Artist can dramatically increase my cultural border control (seizing assets from neighbours peacefully)
• a Great Merchant can bring in 1100 gold!

[Mosier]

@glee

Yes, the benefit for having the Holy Building does apply to every city in the World with that religion.

However you have to create 7 Great Prophets before you can build all 7 buildings.
Although yours is a fine money-making system, I prefer to diversify my Great Leaders:

• a Great Engineer can build a Wonder in one turn
• a Great Artist can dramatically increase my cultural border control (seizing assets from neighbours peacefully)
• a Great Merchant can bring in 1100 gold!

How do you get Engineers? I can never manage to get a high enough percentage of Great People points to make a Great Engineer likely to appear until LONG after they’re useful for me (namely for the early wonders that computers seem to “cheat” to finish less than 3 or 4 turns before you, like pyramids).

[asterion]

@glee

P.S. I refuse to use Slavery (moral decision), although all the computer players use it at some point. I can still beat them!

I just find Slavery to not be a very useful civic. You need large cities to be able to rush production and (in Beyond the Sword) you’re always running the risk of a slave revolt that you might not be able to put down. I’d rather have the extra production and happiness in the long run than being able to rush production of an early building.

[Omniscient]

@glee

• a Great Artist can dramatically increase my cultural border control (seizing assets from neighbours peacefully)

Oh how I love the culture bomb.

[glee]

@Mosier

How do you get Engineers? I can never manage to get a high enough percentage of Great People points to make a Great Engineer likely to appear until LONG after they’re useful for me (namely for the early wonders that computers seem to “cheat” to finish less than 3 or 4 turns before you, like pyramids).

It is difficult. :eek:

As you probably know, you get Great Leaders from building Wonders and having City Specialists. The actual Wonder and the type of Specialist determine your chances of getting particular Leaders.

So having a Priest means you are more likely to get a Great Prophet. To increase your chances for a Great Engineer, you want an Engineer. But you must have surplus food and to have built a Forge (or Factory). And so you must have discovered Metal Casting, then built the Forge. That takes time.

The early Wonders that promote Great Engineers are the Pyramids and the Hanging Gardens.
Which of course is no use in getting a Great Engineer to build one of them. :rolleyes:

I don’t think the computer cheats, but it seems to have favourites (e.g. Bronze Working, Slavery and Pyramids).
The only ways to get to the Pyramids first are to:

• have Stone as a resource (doubles speed)
• get into the Organised Religion civic (+25% to building)
• have an Industrious Leader (Wonders at half-cost)

Hope this helps!

[glee]

@asterion

I just find Slavery to not be a very useful civic. You need large cities to be able to rush production and (in Beyond the Sword) you’re always running the risk of a slave revolt that you might not be able to put down. I’d rather have the extra production and happiness in the long run than being able to rush production of an early building.

Well yes (but I was trying to make a point about imposing human values when playing a computer game).

Does ‘Beyond the Sword’ impose extra Slavery penalties over ‘Warlords’?
I thought you just got one unhappy face in that city for just 10 turns.

(In particluar, if a Barbarian Swordsman is approaching my city, I’m going to rush an Axeman!)

[glee]

@Omniscient

Oh how I love the culture bomb.

A couple of special resources on the disputed border … including Iron / Horses … send for Shakespeare!

[sachertorte]

@glee

The only ways to get to the Pyramids first are to:

• have Stone as a resource (doubles speed)
• get into the Organised Religion civic (+25% to building)
• have an Industrious Leader (Wonders at half-cost)

Hope this helps!

I’d add chop down forests.
Save some forests for your pyramid build and clear cut your way to finishing first.

To get the Hanging Gardens, you need to build an aqueduct first. Sometimes you don’t need the aqueduct yet but you need to build it anyway.

[Strinka]

@Mosier

How do you get Engineers? I can never manage to get a high enough percentage of Great People points to make a Great Engineer likely to appear until LONG after they’re useful for me (namely for the early wonders that computers seem to “cheat” to finish less than 3 or 4 turns before you, like pyramids).

Personally, I find Great Engineers to be most useful near the end of the game. You can use them to make the Space Elevator and the Three Gorges Dam, which are pretty much necessary to win a space race at higher levels. Of course, that late in the game, there’s plenty of time to get forges and factories up to make engineer specialists.

[Omniscient]

@glee

A couple of special resources on the disputed border … including Iron / Horses … send for Shakespeare!

Hell, I use them to flip entire cities to my nation. War without all the unpleasantness.

[glee]

@sachertorte

I’d add chop down forests.
Save some forests for your pyramid build and clear cut your way to finishing first.

To get the Hanging Gardens, you need to build an aqueduct first. Sometimes you don’t need the aqueduct yet but you need to build it anyway.

Good points!

Also the civic Serfdom makes workers +50% quicker to build something whilst clearing a forest whilst discovering Mathematics increases the yield from chopping a Forest by 50%.

[glee]

@Omniscient

Hell, I use them to flip entire cities to my nation. War without all the unpleasantness.

Oh, indeed.

That’ll teach the computer to build near us humans!

[asterion]

@glee

Well yes (but I was trying to make a point about imposing human values when playing a computer game).

Does ‘Beyond the Sword’ impose extra Slavery penalties over ‘Warlords’?
I thought you just got one unhappy face in that city for just 10 turns.

(In particluar, if a Barbarian Swordsman is approaching my city, I’m going to rush an Axeman!)

I think you’re right on the the unhappiness. Anyway, I prefer to try to build Stonehenge and the Great Wall first. Fairly quick cultural expansion and then you’ve got your borders protected from barbarians, removing one headache.

[glee]

@asterion

I think you’re right on the the unhappiness. Anyway, I prefer to try to build Stonehenge and the Great Wall first. Fairly quick cultural expansion and then you’ve got your borders protected from barbarians, removing one headache.

Certainly Stonehenge is useful if you don’t get an early religion. Your choice of new city sites becomes much better as the special resources come into play.

The Great Wall is good too (I love playing on Raging Barbarians, so it’s doubly useful…)

But the Oracle will boost your Technology with that bonus. I try to get Writing and Monarchy first, so the Oracle gives me Feudalism.