I just asked the office manager about this. Before he left the army, he was a Sergeant and a paralegal with the JAG office. According to him,
“I’d say there is a 100% chance somebody will get in trouble for this. From, my experience, there’s a 60% chance there will be a courtmartial.” He went on to explain that, in order for this to happen, there must have been a breakdown in proceedure somewhere, because at every step prior to firing the weapon, everyone involved is required to double check that the information and actions done are correct. For a mistake like that to happen, someone didn’t do that, and he believes the millitary is going to find someone in that chain of command to blame.
Aviation Week says the bomb was a JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munition) dropped by an F/A-18, apparently from the Enterprise. GPS coordinates that were off by 1 mile were entered, but it doesn’t say by whom. The mission seems planned specifically to take out that helicopter, not a target of opportunity.
Certainly that was a screw-up, and if somebody wasn’t paying enough attention to their job they’re gonna get it. Knowing the possible consequences should be enough inspiration to get it right, one might expect.
Freedom, here, buddy, breathe into this paper bag for a while. There ya go. It’s gonna be all right.
Not because I think the pilot should be punished. It was an unfortunate loss, but shit happens when you fling 2000 pounds worth of explosives from a jet.
No, it’s because our concern with 8 civilian lives in a warzone would have been met with disbelief, scorn, and stunned silence even 30 years ago.
Remember Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Dresden, Berlin, and Hanoi, among others?
We’re wasting our time trying to talk sense to Freedom. After all, in the very same thread in which he’s asked for real-life events to back up our assertions, he’s telling us explicitly that real-life events have nothing to do with this thread.
Freedom, as far as I can tell, Monty has never implied that the pilot will get in trouble because civilians died, but because they died through his or her negligence. Presumably, the military draws some sort of line between things that they expect might fail (i.e. you don’t get in trouble for having imperfect aim) and things that are supposed to be done correctly every time. Entering the coordinates into the targeting system is certainly something that one should simply be expected to get right.
Of course, the military could always do what it did when negligence caused the USS Vincennes to shoot down an Iranian passenger aircraft, and give out medals to everyone involved.
Waterj2, you would be hard put to find anyone as sternly skeptical as myself of things military, but I find the notion that there were medals handed out after the Vincennes incident appalling, astounding, no! No!
Can you verify this?
I mean, when I read about the number of combat decorations handed out after Grenada, I didn’t know whether to laugh or puke, but this…this can’t be true.
Sorry. I was getting a link to a page 2, but there was nothing here.
**waterj2
**
My problem stems from the rush to judgement. We still don’t know exactly what happened. Hoping for him to be punished at this point in the game seems a wee bit early to me.
The press isn’t exactly known for being accurate in times of war, nor is it known for being accurate when it comes to the military.
Brushing off responsibility for this death as “someone else’s” fault, just seems callous and selfish to me.
I’ll stand by this pilot until I see him reprimanded by a military court. Until that happens and we get the full story, I think we all owe that little bit of loyalty to the pilot.
So, Freedom; what do you think of police officers here in the United States who write the wrong address on the search warrant application and then end up killing or shooting someone in that residence?
In all my posts, I’ve never said it wasn’t pilot error.
I’ve just disagreed on punishing him for it. I guess if you are right and he will get court martialed, then we won’t have to wait all that long before it happens.
Evidently you are unaware of what consitutes discipline in the US Armed Forces:
Here are different methods available to a Commanding Officer:
[ul][li]Counseling[]Non-judicial Punishment[]Court-martial (which is a trial–being a defendant in a court-martial is no different than being a defendant in a civilian trial)[]Oral Reprimand[]Written Reprimand[]Revocation of Qualifications (such as Pilot Qual)[]Monetary Fine[]Reduction in Rate/Rank[]Confinement[/li]
Now some of these can only be applied at NJP and some only at Courts-martial.[/ul]
Nice of you to give the Cop LESS consideration than you do the Pilot. Or did you miss the scenario specified in my query?
[1] You didn’t call for “some sort of discipline.” You called for punishment.
[2] I don’t see a trial as discipline, I see it as a place to get a fair hearing.
Having said that, after jumping in with both hands swinging, I wondered if I had calmly asked for a clarification, if the we would have wound up at the disclipline/punishment issue.
If all you meant was a fair hearing and an airing of the details, then I offer my apologies for coming on so strong. I’ve had a short fuse since 9/11. If you really did mean that you want this guy punished as of right now, then I stand by my posts.
