Claiming minority status on applications.

I found out the other day that I can claim minority status as an Hispanic. My great-grandmother was native Mexican, my great-grandfather was native Spanish. As a result my grandmother is mixed, yet quite obviously Latino. As for me, my other three grandparents are of Irish descent. What does this mean to me? I’m white as the driven snow except for tanning, when I get darker than your average person.

I was thinking about the repercussions of this. Officially, according to my mother, I am entitled to claim minority status on job applications, college applications, anything that gives some advantage, however minor, to minorities. Yet, if I apply for a Latino scholarship, for example, and I walk into the room, they’re gonna think I’m nuts, I’ll almost certainly be rejected, and then I have a case for discrimination. This, to me, is surreal.

Truth is, based on that criteria, I could claim African-American tomorrow. What are they gonna do, research my genealogy to disprove my claims? Then I can sue them for invasion of privacy, slander, and a bunch of other stuff, and the ludicrousness mounts. Ultimeately, it comes down to “You’re just going to have to take my word for it”, and that just plain sucks. It becomes somewhat akin to the Shannon Faulkner situation at the Citadel a few years ago.

So, what’s the real criteria for claiming minority status? Is it the old “one drop” rule, or is there something more tangible? If not, then the whole argument falls apart, and we have to start from square one.

What do you think?

If you’re treated like you’re black, claim black. If you’re treated like a latino, claim latino. If you’re embraced as white, claim white. It’s that simple.

“Treated like”? Like what? How are black people treated? Latinos? Whites?

That’s so subjective as to be pointless for the purposes of this discussion.

Depends how high-minded you want to be about it. I suppose you could document your heritage if it came down to it. Personally, I’m 100% Jewish, but have never applied for any advantage on that basis (not that it would get me anywhere for affirmative action purposes, but there are still a few college scholarships and such out there). I wanted to get wherever I was going on my own individual merits.

I imagine criteria vary based on the benefit for which you are applying. One guy I went to high school with was eligible for a National Achievement Scholarship because his mother was born in Spain, so he counted as Hispanic. He wasn’t exactly the demographic they were probably aiming for; he was born and raised in the U.S. by two parents with Ph.D.s. One would be very hard-pressed to consider him disadvantaged in any sense.

Eva Luna,

To claim 100% pure descent from any ethnic group on this planet is, from a genetic point of view, a statistical impossibility (remote Pacific islands excluded).

Do the calculation yourself for a limited historical period only. The approximately 20-40 million people of 2000 years ago, or about 60-70 generations, who contributed to your present genetic make up could not possibly all have hailed from Judea?

If you mean that you are 100% Jewish in your upbringing and beliefs, then that is what you should have specified.

I think what pizzabrat is saying is that if people look at you and think “non-white” then that’s a lot different from people looking at you and thinking “white”. We are treated the way we look. Ask any transsexual that.

(Here’s a test: If you heard someone referring to a Hispanic person in a derogatory fashion (like “spic”), would you feel personal offense? Or would you feel the general displeasure that you would feel if you heard anyone being denigrated for their race?)

Furthermore, you don’t know what will happen if you put down “Hispanic”. You’re thinking of the benefits that would come from this but not the disadvantages. What if the job/school/whatever you’re applying for has reached its quota of Hispanics–either literally or figuratively–and they toss your application in the garbage. What if you’re discriminated against by the HR person who first gets your application simply because he’s sick of those “bean-eaters”? What if your prospective job/school is looking to diversify its force and they have a need for white males? What if they’re specifically looking for someone who can speak Spanish? Once you claim “Hispanic” on a form, you can’t change it.

I was in a minority orientation program before I started college. The program was open to all students, but it was targetted to black, Hispanic, Native American, and Pacific Islander students. One of my roomates was a white girl who’s great-grandfather was from Spain. Apparently she had received the info for the program because she was “Hispanic”, but it was clear she was pulling one over on the system. Can’t say I blamed her, but then again I had no sympathy for her when she was bored to death with all of the “how to survive as a minority” seminars we had to go to.

My father is a light-skinned black man. Growing up, when he wasn’t as sun-tanned, he would often get mistaken for white. The things he would overhear from his coworkers would make any decent person vomit. His “blackness” became more apparent as he grew older and he let his hair “fro”, but I’m sure people still mistake him for a white guy. My father doesn’t bubble in “black” for AA purposes. He bubbles it in for the same reason I do: because that’s what we are. For us to NOT bubble it in would be to deny our heritage and identity. In other words, we would belie how we feel inside. Do you feel like white and Hispanic are interchangeable labels that both accurately reflect how you feel inside, or do you think one of them is more genunine and real?

If these questions are strange to you, perhaps you should stick with your present identity and save yourself all the trouble.

PS. I have only met a handful of “minorities”–all people claiming Hispanic ancestry–who don’t look “it”. These people attend seminars and workshops and the like that address “minority” issues. These people also receive money for fixing “minority” issues. Now, if these people are pulling a fast one I can’t fathom how the guilt wouldn’t be killing them. It seems to me it wouldn’t be easy sitting in a room full of “obvious” minorities and pretending you know their pain (or whatever) unless you truly are a minority.

People in a racist backwater in Georgia back in 1979 looked at me (White guy) holding hands with my (now ex) wife (Korean) and saw "Two n~.) So “treated like” and “look like” are, as the Airman so correctly indicated, are too subjective to be meaningless here.

Typo error above corrected herein and clarification inserted.

People in a racist backwater in Georgia back in 1979 looked at me (White guy) holding hands with my (now ex) wife (Korean) and saw–and told me so–“Two n~.” So “treated like” and “look like” are, as the Airman so correctly indicated, are too subjective to be meaningless here.

Monty, I’m not sure I understand your point. I’ve been “treated like” I’m white when I’m with a bunch of white people. I’ve been treated like I’m black when I’m by myself, or when I’m with a bunch of black people. I’m sure if I dated a Hispanic guy, I’d be treated like I’m Hispanic, depending on how he looked and where we went. The fact that treatment changes depending on if you’re by yourself or with someone else does not make treatment “subjective”. It means it’s dependent on context.

Judaism is not a race by any means, and not an ethnicity either, strictly speaking. I think most of us know that.

What I meant is that all my ancestors about whom I know anything at all have self-identified as Jewish. I wish I knew where they were all from, but I haven’t gone back any farther than 19th-century Eastern Europe so far.

Beliefs and upbringing don’t always have anything to do with it. I’m an agnostic, and in any case, under Jewish law anyone born to a Jewish mother is Jewish. So I wouldn’t need to have all Jewish ancestors to be considered Jewish anyway.

Just adding that www.census.gov has official definitions of race/ethnic categories used by the US government.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-1.pdf

This link has specifics on all races and Hispanic origin.

But what you don’t understand is that if I can claim Hispanic on a form and get away with it, I can pick and choose to my advantage. There is no losing scenario for me if that’s the case.

Again, I find that to be absurd.

The question is: would you put down “Hispanic” if there was no AA, no “targeted” programs, or no special scholarships? If not, then you’re talking about a question of morality and ethics. Only you can decide whether or not claiming Hispanic would be the appropriate thing to do. If you claim “Hispanic” just because you think it’ll get you something, I can’t help but to think that’s jerkish behavior. But everyone has the right to be a jerk, so go for it.

I find it strange that people of remote “Hispanic ancestry” can claim to be “Hispanic”. Isn’t Hispanic or Latino a cultural category? I know black Panamanians and blond haired, blue eyed Cubans - but they are Hispanic because they are Spanish speakers.

I know of quite a few people who are not white and claim to be Hispanic, yet know no Spanish at all. Their families came from Latin America many years ago. I think it would be more accurate to say they were (part) Native American and or black, instead of lumping them into a cultural category they really have no connection to. And if a ‘white’ person has some distant Hispanic connections, I don’t see any justification for them being part of a minority.

For instance, I know of several Hispanics (i.e. Spanish speakers) who boast of being ‘pure’ white Spanish or European - and can be quite racist about it - but still happily check off ‘Hispanic’ and get all the post-civil rights benefits African Americans get. I am a white Hispanic myself - so that’s true of some of my own relatives. I believe that ‘Hispanic’ status alone is not a justification for Affirmative Action.

Anyway, a big part of ethnic identification in America today is it’s self determined. Thankfully we don’t have a government agency, like South Africa once did, that ‘assigned’ people to different races.

**syncrolecyne **, you make 100% good sense. But we treat “Hispanic” like it’s a race even though it isn’t. So it must be something.

On the news you’ll hear a suspect described as “Hispanic”. Not Native American. Not black. But “Hispanic”. What does a Hispanic person look like? I don’t know, but I know one when I see one.

Context? :rolleyes:

I find that last statement pretty troubling. It insinuated that people who identify themselves as a member of a specific group no longer have to rely on their credentials.

As I understand most scholarship programs, your “own merits” will determine whether or not you are awarded the scholarship. Those that are limited to a certain race, gender, geographic area, religion, or what have you are matters of eligibility The exception would be if there were absolutely no other people competing for the position/money/award, in which case it’s just economically foolish to refuse to apply. It’s not as if you are denying anyone what is being offered.

As for Airman Door’s original question–I think you could make an argument that it’s valid and even valuable for Airman Doors to be recognized as “Latino” and Eva Luna’s friend to be “Hispanic.” Isn’t it important for people to realize that being “minority” can mean a lot of things, not just the stereotyped skin color and background?

I’ll grant you the skin color thing. Like I said before, my father is pretty non-black-looking and yet his blackness is undeniable.

But without background, being a minority is solely skin deep. I’m not a minority just because I look different. I’m a minority because my upbringing and my cultural identity deviate from the “norm”.

Special scholarships, etc. exist not to help people who look a certain way. It’s to help people who are coming from a certain perspective or background. There is no value, IMHO, if someone who does not have a certain perpective or background PRETENDS that they do. IMHO, that’s what Airman would be doing if he signed up for a scholarship targeted to Hispanics. It isn’t a question about legality. It’s a question about ethics.

Perhaps if Airman had expressed interest in learning about his great-grandmother’s culture, I would feel differently.

Monstro, you expect Airman Doors, USAF to not yake advantage of an AA program because of morals and ethics? I believe the whole reason he (or she) would take advantage of it, is because AA is un-moral and un-ethical in itself.

I think there’s another purpose, as well. Such programs and scholarships aim to attract a more “diverse” population to certain campuses, jobs, etc. On a college campus, one of the purposes is to assist everyone, minority and non-minorities alike, learn about diverse perspectives. Of course many, maybe most, of the minority students who are recruited via these programs bring a perspective of being, for lack of a better word, “other.” That’s important for people who haven’t experienced that, or have done so from a different identity. But I’d argue it’s important to round that out that by also having people on campus who fit the strict definition of “minority” but have had a “non-minority” experience (whatever the hell that is).

If I can take an extreme example, take my own sorry self. I came from a town where there were no blacks, few asians, and most latinos where recent immigrants from Mexico who tended to live on the wrong side of the tracks. I wasn’t a complete rube, but I am sure there are people from my town who thought that all blacks were like the family on “Good Times” and all latinos were poor. If you’re really going to educate people like that by putting them in a diverse environment, they need to meet/know/learn from the full spectrum of minorities. Including wealthy blacks who have had every advantage, latinos who always been treated as “white,” native americans who have never set foot on a reservation, and so on.

Those people might not need the “help” those scholarships offer, and they may not bring with them the “experience” of being disadvantaged in the ways we associate with being non-majority, but their experience and perspective helps tell the full story of what a “minority” really is.