Claiming the word "Neocon" is antisemitic is just another Republican lie.

No, it is not. You know very well that my usage is precise and to the point. I’ve defined it in the past, precisely as a descriptive term for a kind of Israeli nationalist position. In the context of the parties, that is indeed accurate.

Your implication that I am using it in the context of an anti-Jewish smear is par for the course, but entirely unfounded.

Your google search is hardly “research” nor particularly revealing of anything but the somewhat tenuous relationship you have with the concept.

Nor did I say it was. I was just giving you a head start if you wanted to do some research.

The question is whether the word “neocon” has been used to imply “Jew.” I had imagined that you might want to read the relevant articles to actually check how the term has been used before making up your mind.

You know, your casual usage of anti-semite in this context has really gotten on my nerves. Let’s clear this up, are you accusing me of anti-semitism?

The term “Zionist leanings” is typically used as a slur by anti-Semites. I believe you that you didn’t mean it that way. You have never posted anything that made me think you were antisemitic.

Another request for somebody to define “neoconservatism” please.

I honestly haven’t a clue.

Well there BBC documentry on the neo-conservatives, which included alot of interviews with many of it’s leading lights, which gives a good overview. IIRC the person who coined the phrase “neo-conservatives” is actually Jewish himself and is something of an expert on the movement (though he is opposed to many of it’s ideas).

That has to be about the most ridiculous thing i’ve read in a long time. Why can some people not get it through their skulls that Judaism and Zionism are not the same thing, and that one can be opposed to Zionism, or certain aspects of it, without being anti-Semitic?

I’ve now read it. I still can’t see how it equates neocons with Jews.

The full quote is:

It’s clear that the author is giving a range of opinions that are not his own. I could write a story about Bush, and say “he’s been called a savior, hero and madman”. You would not be entitled to interpret that as me saying Bush is a savior.

Look, if neocon just meant con, the term neocon wouldn’t exist. It’s obviously meant to convey something other than just conservatism.

That is a problem. My guess is that people are grappling with questions like “Who the fuck are these people that now seem to be in charge, and what the fuck is their actual agenda?”

I don’t know. I would certainly put Rumsfeld in the neocon camp. I’m not sure about Cheney, and I don’t know what the author’s criteria were.

As others have pointed out, this is completely worthless.

That would be the proverbial hammer hitting the head.

Slate, the Washington Post, and others have called the Perle/Wolfowitz/Feith group the “Likudnik” movement. Calling them this implies that they are Zionist but is in no way anti-Semitic. It is quite accurate in describing their views that peace in the Middle East should be dictated on high from a position of power rather than negotiated through a diplomatic process. The neo-cons and Likud both have a pseudo-imperialist approach to foreign policy which I find extermely scary and simple-minded.

Neo-conservatism is/was a political philosophy that developed in the 60’s-70’s, largely as a reaction to the New Left, and what the neo-cons saw as a breakdown of common values and an increasing “me first” philosophy that stressed individual success and hedonism. It started out in the Democratic party but really found its home among the Republicans.

Neocons saw two main causes for America’s moral decline. The first was the philosophy of unrestrained capitalism, which said that everything is for sale, and that every relationship is transactional. The neocons said that even though capitalism was the best economic system, you couldn’t build a society on it. The second was the expanding government and the growth of the welfare state, which encouraged people to rely on the government for their needs, instead of encouraging individual initiative.

If you get the chance, read Irving Kristol, who was one of the founders of the movement and can describe it better than I can. You also might want to read Allan Bloom’s “Closing of the American Mind” as well as almost anything by Leo Strauss, but especially his “On Tyranny”. For neocon foreign policy, read Francis Fukuyama or Samuel Huntington (If you read Huntington, read “The Third Wave”, “Political Order in Changing Societies” and "American Politics: The Promise of Disharmony. Don’t read “Clash of Civilizations”, which is kind of an embarrassment.)

Attacks on neoconservatives aren’t automatically antisemitic, but there often IS an element of antisemitism in the attacks- particularly in attacks coming from the “paleoconservatives.”

If you’re not familiar with the term, well, that suggests you’re one of those who thinks “the right wing” is a monolith. In reality, the conservative “movement” has a lot of factions, many of which don’t much like each other. They may rally around some of the same candidates, but there’s often a lot of tension and mutual disdain. Anyone who reads leading conservative journals has observed this.

A Pat Buchanan (paleoconservative) and a Charles Krauthammer (neo) both embrace Ronald Reagan, but for very different reasons. To people like Buchanan, Reagan represented an attempt to reverse the dominant trends in American society and return to a better past. To people like Krauthammer, Reagan represented a resurgence of American power, which could be used to change the rest of the world for the better.

To the paleoconservative, the outside world is ugly and evil, and should be shunned. That’s why, all these years later, you’ll still hear Pat Buchanan using the slogan “America First.” To the paleo, the Middle East is a hellhole we should have nothing to do with. To the neo, the rest of the world must be engaged and dealt with, and (ideally) brought around to America’s values.

So, you have two sizable groups of “conservatives” with diametrically opposed views of America’s place in the world. Tension is inevitable. And this tension is aggravated by religion and ethnicity. Almost all the paleos are Christians who are far more interested in domestic social issues than in foreign affairs. Almost all the leading neos are secular Jews who don’t much care about combatting abortion or homosexuality.

So, when a paleo attacks policies advocated by neos, he’s just liable to betray some hostility toward Jews as a whole, and not just toward the individual neos. Pat Buchanan thinks the U.S. should completely wash his hands of the Middle East, which he thinks will always be a powderkeg. And when he sees Jews neocons advocating a hawkish policy in the Middle East, he’s predisposed to think they’re acting in Israel’s best interests, not America’s. Thus, his rhetoric (and that of his comrades on the far right) increasingly shows a hostility toward Jews.

So, in answer to the OP: there is DEFINITELY an element of antisemitism in some attacks on neoconservatives. Obviously, one can disagree with the neos on a host of issues for perfectly valid reasons. But if the neocons suspect there’s SOME antisemitism in the attacks on them, they’re correct.

I have done a bit of research using the google list cited above. Here’s an ugly quote from some blog called Carol on the web. http://www.carolontheweb.com/links/weenies.html

BTW “mamzer” means “bastard”. It seems clear that this blog used “neo-con” as part of an antisemitic screed. So, the practice exists. The question is how widespread it is.

Vanguard News Network is an even uglier site – both racist an anti-semitic. Here is a partial list of articles from their archives.

Oh, and I agree with Astorian in the above post.

december, what was the fucking point of all that?

Some people hate Jews. Everyone knows that.

“Murdoch is a Jew”. No, he’s not.

The point being debated here is not whether anti-semitism exists, or whether you can find crap on the internet to support any hypothetical position.

Who was really behind 9/11? Aliens. Proof? I found it on the internet:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/conspiracy020417.html

Please stop this nonsense, december

Well, they were aliens (non-US citizens) and many people would call them “inhuman”. . . That’s the kind of reasoning december would make.

The OP said it was a lie to claim that the word “Neocon” is antisemitic. My examples refuted the OP. They showed instances where “neocon” was most definitely used as an antisemitic slur.

One can still debate just how widespread this usage is. Surely many others are using the term “neocon” without intending any anti-semitic meaning. But, it’s no lie to claim that the term is sometimes used that way.

A little Googling reveals many antisemitic attacks on Bill and Hillary Clinton. This demonstrates that anybody who says bad things about the Clintons is an antisemite. Therefore, december is an antisemite.

Brilliant research, december. A little Googling reveals that Alien abductors are thought to be Jewish. I found proof that people believe this on the Internet so it must be true! (Though I don’t understand the Disclaimer near the bottom of the cited page.)

As someone who’s voted Likud once or twice, I have to say that they’re not nearly as right-wing as the Republicans. That’s one aspect of the Israeli parliamentary form of government - the extremists have their own parties. december, for instance, would fit perfectly in the National Union.