Neocon =Jews??

[Reeder]

What the hell is this frigging idiot talking about??

In the 90’s, many people self-identified themselves as “neocons,” but today that term has become synonymous with “Jews.”

Joel Mowbray: Biography and Latest Articles - Joel Mowbray

Does anyone here equate the neocons with Jews? Their religion or heritage doesn’t mean squat to me.

Where on earth does the right wing dig up these idiots?

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

I dunno. A quick Google search indicates that possibly the only person who thinks that Neocon=Jew is the author you just cited.

Anyway, I asked somewhere else and got 15 different answers, and you obviously have an opinion, so what’s a Neocon? I have no idea.

[Reeder]

I equate neocon right or wrong, with the warmongers in the Bush admin.

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

OK, so what is it? I already knew what you think, I want to know what makes them Neocons. Since the word is bandied about so freely, it wouldn’t hurt to have a definition so I know what one is.

[Desmostylus]

Didn’t we have this debate with december months ago?

[vanilla]

http://www.texemarrs.com/102003/reigns_of_power.htm

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

Apparently so, Desmostylus.

I’ll have to read that thread now. It’s not too long.

[vanilla]

link didn’t work.
That would Texe Marrs’ newsletter of october 2003

[Nametag]

Well, the author’s definition of neoconservatives as “those who are new to conservatism” is obvious nonsense: so obvious that I must conclude that that was a joke (humorless though he otherwise seems). He seems to be serious about it being a Beltway code word for Jew, though, which I think may be true of some people, but not all. FWIW, this Wikipedia article concedes that an awful lot of the neocons in the administration are Jewish, and that neoconservatives favor a robust pro-Israel policy. They also point out, however, that Michael Novak, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, Frank Gaffney, and Max Boot are not Jewish, and that part of their favor for Israel comes from admiration for Israel’s pre-emptive tactics.

In a weird way, this Texe Marrs’s lunatic screed has a lot of accurate information in it, but I can’t winnow it from the paranoid nonsense, so I rather think I’ll ignore it.

[E-Sabbath]

I’m sorry that I don’t have the moment to research now, but I believe that, as far as the neocon movement is considered, most of the founders were, specifically, jewish lefties that went right.

This means very little, but people can take the smallest thing and tar it any way they want.

[Flymaster]

Al Franken seems to, on page 281 of Lies:

Bush has managed to form a coalition between Christian conservatives like Reed and mean antigovernment conservatives like Norquist. And hawkish Jewish neo-conservatives. The neo-cons and the Christian Right have formed a close bond on Israel. Though for slightly different reasons. Neo-cons support the Jewish state for the same reasons I do: because it is the only democracy in the region, and because they’re Jewish.

Now, he’s not saying the neocons are the evil zionist conspiracy, nor does he say all Jews are neocons and all neocons are Jews. But he does seem to say that there’s a relationship there.

(Liberals, don’t flame me on this one. I’m not discrediting Al. Frankly I agree with him, and consider myself to be somewhere to his left, politically. I’m just pointing his passage out.)

[rjung]

I think Al’s point is that the neo-cons and the Jews support Israel simply because they believe (for their own reasons) that “it’s the right thing to do.” The Jews have a cultural reason for believing this, and the neo-cons have a political one, but it just reads like a simple convergence of goals to me.

Of course, I’d never insult my Jewish friends by calling them neo-cons, but that’s me.

[Flymaster]

rjung: But isn’t he also saying, that, for the most part, the neo-cons are Jews?

[PatriotX]

**The Neoconservative Persuasion**
From the August 25, 2003 issue: What it was, and what it is.
by Irving Kristol
08/25/2003, Volume 008, Issue 47

WHAT EXACTLY IS NEOCONSERVATISM? Journalists, and now even presidential candidates, speak with an enviable confidence on who or what is “neoconservative,” and seem to assume the meaning is fully revealed in the name. Those of us who are designated as “neocons” are amused, flattered, or dismissive, depending on the context. It is reasonable to wonder: Is there any “there” there?

Even I, frequently referred to as the “godfather” of all those neocons, have had my moments of wonderment. A few years ago I said (and, alas, wrote) that neoconservatism had had its own distinctive qualities in its early years, but by now had been absorbed into the mainstream of American conservatism. I was wrong, and the reason I was wrong is that, ever since its origin among disillusioned liberal intellectuals in the 1970s, what we call neoconservatism has been one of those intellectual undercurrents that surface only intermittently. It is not a “movement,” as the conspiratorial critics would have it. Neoconservatism is what the late historian of Jacksonian America, Marvin Meyers, called a “persuasion,” one that manifests itself over time, but erratically, and one whose meaning we clearly glimpse only in retrospect.

[Desmostylus]

The quote you chose says nothing useful, SimonX. He’s trying to say that neocon is just mainstream con. A better quote would be this one:

Viewed in this way, one can say that the historical task and political purpose of neoconservatism would seem to be this: to convert the Republican party, and American conservatism in general, against their respective wills, into a new kind of conservative politics suitable to governing a modern democracy.

Ends justify the means.

[PatriotX]

*Originally posted by Desmostylus *
**
The quote you chose says nothing useful, SimonX. He’s trying to say that neocon is just mainstream con. A better quote would be this one:Ends justify the means.
**

Well, it was at least sorta relevant to the idea of “Neocon =Jews?” in that it discusses the nature of neo-conservatism and thus makes implications as to its adherents and the question of their Jewishness.

[cuauhtemoc]

“Conservative” used to mean fiscal responsibility and limited government, right? The Republican party may have favored these principles at one time. Not anymore. Those people all must have died and left the party to the two main groups that currently dominate it - the “Religious Right”, as exemplified by the Christian Coalition and such; and people who are into the whole New American Century idea. It’s this latter group I think of when people use the term “Neoconservative”. What this has to do with Jews I have no idea, unless you believe that Jews are bent on world domination, in which case I don’t care to hear any more from you. On the other hand, I have no idea what it has to do with actual conservative principles either.

[PatriotX]

To be fair, some prominent people of the neo-con persuasion have done policy work for the Likud party.
Perle was caught passing classified national security info to the Israelis.

[rjung]

*Originally posted by Flymaster *
rjung: But isn’t he also saying, that, for the most part, the neo-cons are Jews?

That’s not how I read it. Your interpretation may vary.

[Flymaster]

Well, let’s break down what he said:

Neo-cons support the Jewish state for the same reasons I do:

He is saying here that neo-cons have more than one reason for supporting the Jewish state, and that they are the same as Al Franken’s reasons.

because it is the only democracy in the region,

Most people would agree with this, I think.

and because they’re Jewish.

Al supports a Jewish state because he is Jewish. Similarly, then, one can conclude that Al is saying that the neo-cons are Jewish.

I’d like to see how you came to your conclusion about what he meant.