Professional Gambling has been in the news recently. Jeopardy champion **James Holzhauer calls himself a professional sports gambler.
How does psychologists view these people? Do they consider them as slightly more skilled people with a gambling addiction?
Is their an obvious distinction between these groups? I understand professional study the casino games, but every gambler I’ve met says they have a fool proof system to win. Even when the mortgage payment was lost at the horse races.
What about professional poker players? Is it a skill similar enough to chess that differentiates itself from pure gambling?
**I’m not sure what Holzhauer plays. Wikipedia says he bets on football,baseball, and basketball games. He played poker and hearts/spades at a card club. Perhaps he tries various casino games? I haven’t seen anything mentioned.
Casino games have negative expectation. There are things like promotions and tournaments where that may not be entirety true though.
For sports betting, a gambler must overcome the house edge, which varies depending on bet size, location, etc…but 10 percent is a good rule of thumb. It turns out it’s very difficult if not impossible for most people to beat that 10 percent edge. And if you are that skilled, nothing says the book needs to take your action. But it’s conceivable that there are professional sports gamblers who earn a living gambling. As opposed to selling touts, losing the money they won in other endeavors, etc…
Poker players play against each other. The house takes a fee (the rake) for the privilege of hosting the game. For many subsets of card playing, this fee may be the only positive expectation out of any of the players. IOW, at the end of the session, it’s entirely possible if not probable that everyone at the table lost money. For other subsets, it’s definitely possible to earn money long term. Many players will talk about their win rate, in dollars per hour, and have the gambler’s diary entries to prove it.
I don’t gamble and know little about professional gambling and the risk of developing a gambling addiction.
I had one negative experience gambling that taught me a life long lesson. I was 14 and on a vacation trip with my parents. We went to a bingo hall and my mom let me buy three cards with my allowance for the vacation. I had one entire card filled out except one square. I sat there another five minutes while numbers were called. Someone else yelled bingo!
That was the best life lesson my mom ever gave me. She did give me some spending money for the rest of the vacation.
My mom & dad never gambled either. That Bingo hall visit was with friends they were visiting during our three state trip.
Wouldn’t that be like classifying everyone who enjoys sex and is good at it as a sex addict?
My impression is an addiction means the dopamine rush of winning makes you do stupid, risky and counter productive things chasing that rush.
A true professional gambler would walk away when they start losing money. Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley do not. They both lost tens of million a gambling.
The “best life lesson”? What a bizarre interpretation. All she did was inappropriately let you gamble as a young teenager. Are you suggesting that she had paid off every other participant in the bingo session to arrange this specific outcome to teach you a lesson?
In any event, that outcome seems like a classic way to get hooked on gambling, not the reverse - obviously you could so easily have won, if only your luck had been very slightly different, so you go back and try again…
I believe that Jimmy the Greek claimed that he made his money in side bets, betting on the outcome of the house game with other gamblers. Supposedly he knew the odds of the game far better than his marks, so he was able to bet appropriately to achieve a positive outcome.
She let me experience something new. I would have encountered gambling in college anyhow. How I interpreted that experience was up to me. I learned early what it felt like to take a risk and lose. All my spending money for that vacation trip gone.
Mom was kind and bailed me out with more allowance so my vacation wasn’t ruined. But, only after letting my experience sink in.
It wasn’t a lot of money by adult standards. Just a kids allowance for a trip. So I could buy a few souvenirs along the way.
I certainly could have joined in to card games in college. I just wasn’t interested.
There are a few people who call themselves professional gamblers who are not just deluding themselves. There are a lot of people who are. Without seeing records of Holzhauer’s bets, it’s impossible to say which category he’s in.
Umm, you don’t need to fill out the entire card in Bingo, you just need to fill out one row. You had actually won that round long before the other player.
That was decades ago. I just remember that I needed one more number to win on that card. I was already thinking of the cool stuff I could buy with my small windfall.
I’m glad now that I didn’t win. I doubt much would have changed if I had. I can’t imagine ever having much interest in gambling.
This. A friend of mine is an addictions counsellor, and he counsels gambling addicts (along with drug addicts and alcoholics). Naturally, he never talks about specifics as regards his clients, but he has referred to the characteristics of problem gambling; many of which appear in enalzi’s linked list.
Interestingly, one of the reasons we know each other is because he heard that I knew a lot about gambling, in all forms. He wanted to learn about the various casino games and sports betting and horse racing, and all about odds, and so on, in order to deal with his gambling clients more effectively. So I taught him. We visited casinos, and played the games there (after some pre-visit explanation from me on how to play), and we visited the horse race track too. He now has a better understanding of what his gambling clients are dealing with.
In learning from me, he has found that he rather enjoys an afternoon of racing at the local track, and will let me know when he goes. But it is entertainment for both of us–a couple of beers, some small bets, and high-fives when our horse finishes in the money. We’re lucky if we win enough to celebrate with a final beer from the track bar. We are entertained on a Saturday afternoon, but we’re sure not trying to win back this month’s rent.
My friend’s son is a professional poker player. He was doing PR before and discovered he could make more money playing against other players.
He plays smart, knows when to fold and doesn’t do stupid things. He’s not getting rich but he likes it. However, it’s late hours and such, so there are drawbacks.
Are successful gamblers “addicts” ? Some are, but many are just making a living the best way they can.
Similarly, consider a guy who likes sexual variety and has the charm and/or money to get laid easily. Is he a “sex addict”? Or, contrariwise, consider a monogamous guy who becomes very cranky when his wife is, for whatever reason, unavailable for a long while. Is that monogamous guy a “sex addict”?
I don't think it's so rare to have a winning system at sports betting. I have a multi-millionaire friend for whom basketball betting was a major income source. (He offered to pay me a salary to live in Vegas and place bets for him — one of my life's many lost opportunities :) .)
IIRC there are some simple strategies (bet against Dallas Cowboys? Bet on Green Bay Packers?) that overcome much of the house vigorish. (This works because many big bettors bet "sub-optimally.")
I don't think Nevada sports books turn away bets, though they do adjust the odds. IIRC, they encourage big bettors, "professional" or not, to bet early to help them set the odds and spreads.
Addiction has to do with still doing a behavior even after negative consequences. So a professional gambler who consistently wins money does not have to be a gambling addict.
However, I bet 90% of professional gamblers are gambling addicts who are good enough at one game to support their habit. Amarillo Slim wrote an autobiography about his time as a professional gambler and it is full of crazy stories about how far people like him would go for action.
I would expect that the majority of self-described “professional gamblers” are in fact addicts, but that they don’t make enough, at any or all games, to support their habit. They’re just on a temporary downturn right now, but it’s sure to clear up soon and put them back in the black, if they just gamble enough more.
Certainly poker pros can make money. Basically they are playing against players like me and not the house, although the house takes a small cut. But anyone who plays the games of chance–whether or not they have a system–are going to lose. Card counters playing blackjack can also win, if the house lets them. Why the house doesn’t count and shuffle when the odds can favor the player is something I cannot understand.
Even when the mortgage payment was lost at the horse races.