A friend was telling me that in Maine, parents of an autistic teen are suing their school district. Their son is nonverbal and they want to know what’s going on in the classroom, they are concerned as to whether or not he’s being treated properly. In the lawsuit, the parents want him to have a camera to record what’s going on, the district says, not going to happen, it invades the privacy of our other students. My first thought was, my daughter is very verbal and other than funny things that happened at lunch or in class, she would rarely tell me anything that goes on in school. My second thought was a red flag, do the parents have reason to believe their son isn’t being treated properly? If so, why is he still there? I’m curious what your opinion is, should the parents have their way or is the district right. I feel for the parents but I need to go with the district on this. Unless cameras are being placed for the safety of all students, I don’t think it should be allowed. What do you think?
I am with the parents, to a degree. If the kid’s being potentially mis-treated they should remove him. OTOH, other kids have an expectation of privacy, how? It is a public place, I assume. Most other public spaces are camera’ed up. Schools should be no different. If the school is private, that changes, of course. I have raised 3 kids through public school, there were cameras everywhere. I was called to school one time when an incident occurred in a hallway. My child was seen in the video watching two kids making out. The school had a strict NPDA rule, they wanted my son to tell who the kids were, he told them he didn’t know them. They thought he was lying to protect them. He wasn’t, in my opinion. We had a large group of new kids that year because of a school consolidation with ours. It was a big mess over nothing.
Thanks for this, I didn’t realize there had been a ruling, I heard this second hand.
This ruling, if it gets applied nationwide, scares the hell out of me for everyone who workds in a high school. What drives me INSANE about court rulings like this (made by people who have usually never worked in a school or around kids in their entire adult lives) is that no one seems to consider or take seriously the chain of events these decisions will cause. Sure, the article mentions a student body-slammed by a cop recorded by a student (as if that recording would somehow be required over the testimony of the dozen-plus other kids in that room). But what the most common use of this will be, I suspect, is students recording every last word every teacher or principal says, and then broadcasting it out of context on the Internet. One more reason not to work for a school district, IMHO. Talk about disruptive.
from Beckdawrek
If the kid’s being mistreated the parents should’ve gone to the police or district-level authorities, instead of acting like private eyes. What did they expect to DO with whatever they found? Schools are NOT public spaces the way a county courthouse is. That’s why they have locked doors. Any random person cannot just walk into a school. And while there may be security cameras all over school buildings, they are not usually in classrooms, nor are students allowed to simply video classes.
I agree with you. This was a stupid use of security video.
As a parent of a child with autism this gets brought up alot.
YES, we want cameras in the classroom. Its not just for our kids protection, its so we know the teachers are actually WORKING with our kids and doing the jobs they are paid to do.
Here is the scenario. As a parent if your kid is in a regular classroom you can go in and visit and stay as much as you like (provided their isnt a disruption). Some classrooms have 2 way mirrors so you can watch from outside and nobody in the room can see you. Yet to visit the special ed room I have to get written permission ahead of time, it can only be for no more than 30 minutes, and the head of special ed for the district has to approve and sit next to me.
Now getting back to teacher behavior, we often use spies - yes spies. We have the paras tell us what is going on.
Oh and do NOT, NOT, expect the principal to check in on them. I know in most schools the special ed room is set apart in some corner or basement and the principal rarely visits. On one occasion I know where the teacher wasnt doing a damn bit of work with the kids (spent most of her time on Facebook) the ONE time the principal came in for an observation, he sent word about it days before and … WOW… that teacher suddenly turned into TEACHER OF THE YEAR of working hard with the kids.
So YES, we want cameras in the classroom.
Yes, always if a kid is being mistreated, call out the cops, the school board, screaming PTA moms, whatever it takes. I probably would’ve went to school and sat there til I got satisfaction. But, if camera’s help for safety I am still guarded about their use.
This is one reason why cameras are a terrible idea. I’m a good teacher. Win awards and things. But I have no doubt that if dozens of people felt they had not just the right to watch me every minute of my work day and that they were entitled to tell me how to do my job, they’d find times where I was less than perfect. And the threat of people swooping in, packed with righteous indignation, ready to tel me how I am a lazy, unprofessional mooch, stealing tax payer dollars and armed with edited clips to demonstrate it . . . oh lord, that makes me ill.
First, thanks for being a good teacher. Quite frankly most teachers wont need cameras. Heck in most regular classrooms parents volunteer anyways.
Question: In your building where is the special ed room? How often does the principal go there? Does the principal make surprise visits? Is there a “code of silence” among special ed staff?
A big difference between your room and special ed rooms. In special ed these are kids who are often non-verbal. They are maybe 2-3 of them alone with the teachers and paras and often the principal or other staff never go into that room. If they are like ours parents are not allowed.
So basically anything can happen behind that door. I have heard stories where the teachers basically have the kid playing in the corner the whole time instead of working with them. I’ve been lied to on IEP’s. One time this teacher, who had just gotten married, spent an hour just showing off her pictures to the other teachers in the room and the kids just sat on the floor doing nothing.
I know these things because as I said, we parents get spies in there.
Camera solve none of those problems. The best solution to those problems are making formal reports to the district, the state education agency, and, if needed, the Federal Government; I’ve been part of an civil rights investigation involving an IEP. You might also try your school board member.
In your situation, my first step would be aggressive lobbying to have the special ed room moved to a more central location. I’d also pressure the principal’s boss to mandate the principal observe the class regularly.
I think if the parents suspect mistreatment, they need to be having conversations with administrators, child welfare and the police. The only reason I can think of to keep the child in what they presume, for reasons I do not know, an unsafe environment, is they are looking for proof to bring about a lawsuit. If what they suspect is true, they have every right to do so. That said, is their primary concern the safety of their kid or winning against a district or teacher?
I agree with Lizard, the use of cameras in classrooms could really take situations out of proportion.
Ditto. And I wonder just what proportion of these parents would have zero objection to being on camera every minute at THEIR jobs? Eh? And not just a camera feed that only their boss can see, but a feed every single one of their coworkers can see, or everyone in their building? (hey, 25 sets of parents equals at least several dozen people watching. Fair’s fair!)
Public schools occupy a weird place in this discussion because, on the one hand, they’re public facilities paid for with tax dollars, and taxpayers have a right to know what is going on inside them. On the other hand, the law is pretty clear that students have a reasonable expectation of privacy; my friend the high school art teacher really shouldn’t be telling me that JessieSue Campbell got an F, or BillyBob Duckworth got a detention for gutting a fish in class.
This is going to sound pretty defensive,sorry. But the truth is, I’m pretty offended.
Admitting this seriously weakens any argument you have for allowing them in the first palace.
2-3 alone with teachers, versus 20-30 alone with regular teachers. And the reason principals may not be popping in all the time is because dealing with special needs kids can be VERY tricky. The sheer paperwork and training involved just to BE a special ed teacher boggles the mind. Many of these kids are supposed to have a quiet, stable environment. Strangers showing up all the time contradicts that.
Stories from who? Other adults? And if so, why were they telling you instead of the principal? If kids told you these stories, I have some news for you: Kids are not reliable witnesses. No matter how nice the kid is, no matter if it’s your OWN kid. By the way, have any of your kids ever exaggerated, lied, obfuscated, stretched the truth, or “forgot” something pretty important (like relevant details) they should’ve told you? Happens. Every. Day. That’s why kids aren’t reliable witnesses!
Not only that, but special needs/behaviorally disordered kids can be incredibly difficult to deal with, up to and including assaulting teachers. You expect teachers to just sit there and take that all day, every day?
That’s unfortunate. How do you know this?
So, someone sat there with a stopwatch, timing her? If a kid was your source for this, quite a few kids see no difference between “15 minutes” and “one hour.” This goes back to what I said above: “Kids are not reliable witnesses.” And nothing gets kids more excited than having an adult listen to the kid complain about another adult. Attention. They always want it.
And now YOU know why there is a massive and growing shortage of special ed teachers. There’s a simple solution here: Homeschool your kid. If you can’t or won’t do that, consider cutting some slack for the harried, overworked people who are taking care of your kid all day for free. I foresee a day when a school is sued for not providing special needs services, then is able to PROVE they couldn’t find a single person to take the job(s), for any price. Then the parents who think that spying on teachers is such a great idea will be S.O.L.
FERPA. I’m not even allowed to talk with a previous instructor about a student’s ongoing performance.
I find it hard to answer everyone of your questions so I will try and answer in general.
But first, YES, we already do home therapy like ABA where we pay people to come into our home and work with our son. If we parents actually had our way we would prefer a separate school for our kids. Much likeKansas School for the Deaf is for deaf kids. Their are already some private schools likeChildrens TLC andKansas City
Autism Training Center. However I cannot afford them. Some background: At Childrens TLC they have 2 way mirrors in the classrooms. At KCATC, (it cost $50 k a year) I know of parents who successfully sued their district for gross IEP violations and the district had to pay to put their kid there.
But your line “the harried, overworked people who are taking care of your kid all day for free”. What? These teachers are PAID. In my area teachers with a masters and about 10 years are paid about $50k a year plus full benefits. And YES, we do do home therapy like ABA. I find it interesting that I can pay a 18 year old to work with my son at home for $8 an hour who can make more progress than a $50k a year teacher with a masters.
The anecdotes I have noted of special ed teacher misbehavior was given to me by trusted adults. Now why do these people not take it to an administrator? They were afraid of losing their jobs. You know about the teacher code of silence where teachers will NOT talk about things to outsiders? That is especially strong in special ed. That code often goes up to the principal level or even beyond where the teachers back the principal and vise versa and the principal ensures they keep their jobs plus any perks. Now this “code” might not be in other departments but I’ve seen it as part of special ed.
And what if say a non-tenured teacher, a student teacher, or a para went and told on a tenured classroom teacher? Well for those teachers, their careers would be over. All the regular teachers and speech therapists and others would deny everything and unite to make sure that squealer was removed or else silenced.
So we as parents need evidence. In my school they did everything they could to hide evidence for example, teachers were told NOT to correspond with parents via email about classroom issues because said email is evidence. Proof: I once had an issue with my sons 2nd grade teacher. She was basically giving a weekly spelling test but NOT actually using classroom time to teach spelling. it was supposed to be taught by us parents at home. She sent me an email telling me as a parent how to teach spelling at home (she claimed she didnt have classroom time to teach spelling). I took that email to the principal, he talked to the teacher and lo and behold, that teacher suddenly made time to teach spelling. Also the paras. They were worried that the paras were acting as 'spies" so they set a rule so paras could not speak to parents. Only teachers could. Even though its the lower paid paras who actually spend the most time working with our kids, they were not allowed in IEP meetings and were forbidden to talk to parents.
I have also had them forge IEP documents. One time my son in special ed during an IEP meeting they handed me a worksheet they said showed his improved handwriting skills. I looked at it and knew right there that wasnt my sons handwriting and when I called them out on it and demanded my son reproduce this quality work, they admitted another student had done the work they then claimed my son had done. YES THEY FORGED A DOCUMENT FOR AN IEP. They would do that all the time showing me projects such as artwork, claiming my son had done it but in reality, someone else had done the work.
Now do I take a kids word? Sometimes. Some kids are peer models and can describe things pretty accurately. I dont just throw it out because they are kids.
Now quite frankly, your attitude is part of the problem if I should be so blunt. You are in denial that some teachers cause problems. You tell me as a parent basically “take your stupid kid and leave”. WHICH is part of the problem because most parents who have problems with special ed, are basically afraid of getting their kid kicked out or the problems becoming worse. Those of us who do look like kooks.
Are special ed teachers in short supply? Depends upon the district. Not in our area of suburban Overland Park Kansas.
Now after saying this I know most teachers including special ed teachers, are actually wonderful professionals who work hard for the kids. Their are some bad apples also though and for those, yes, I want to see cameras in the classrooms.
And its not just me. I work with dozens of other highly respected person through the Autism Society of America who also want them.
Again, I do thank you for your work teaching but please recognize when their are issues.
If you believe most teacher are actually wonderful professionals who work hard, then lead with THAT, and then point out your experiences as the isolated examples of bad fortune they are. Frankly, it’s not that I disbelieve what you’re describing, it’s that most teachers I know would never act like this but are always painted with the same broad brush. Most teachers, in fact, are above-average people in most ways, and their reward for this is to endure scrutiny, suspicion, disrespect and micro-management the average person would never tolerate. It’s no surprise 50% of teachers are gone in 5 years.
**“You are in denial that some teachers cause problems. You tell me as a parent basically ‘take your stupid kid and leave’” **- this is a straw man, as it’s not what I said, but you’re acting as it it was. Homeschooling kids allows parents the ability to micro-manage all they want (which is the real reason they want cameras). They are certainly entitled to micromanage, but not on the public’s time and dime. And that was also what I was getting at with the comment about it being “free.” The resources expended on special ed kids are far and away more per child than on regular ed almost everywhere; minuscule class sizes, special assistants, etc. are fantastically expensive, and their parents don’t have to pay for ANY of that, not a dime extra for for all the extra time and money spent on their kid. I’m fully aware there are some bad teachers out there. I’m also fully aware that some parents of special needs kids are notorious for acting like the whole world revolves around their child, and no budget is too large for him/her … since they are not paying for it anyway.
That “code of silence” is called the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), whereby if any teacher says anything about a student to ANYONE other than that kid’s parents the teacher is breaking the law/may be sued/sent to bed without dessert, etc. If you believe incompetence is being tolerated in your district, the proper place to address it is with the school board.
I don’t doubt all the examples of dysfunction you’ve cited, but you’re missing their true significance and your own part in it. Going around trying to nail people, having “spies,” wanting to put cameras in classrooms, keeping a list of grievances–it all indicates a toxic, persecutorial work environment. Teachers alone can’t create that, but PARENTS sure can!
On your points: Yes, a special ed kid costs more. However our school gets extra funding from the state for him. Plus add in the fact that since my son is mainstreamed into the regular classroom with para support, the teachers like having him because his para means an extra adult teacher in the room who not only works with my son, but also with the other kids. So that means 2 teachers for the price of one.
You say 50% of teachers leave and you blame parents for that. Oh come on. You know their are all kinds of reasons for that. Mostly due to frustrations dealing with the administrators or rules as THIS article states. That article mentions little about controlling parents.
Now you also discuss the adversarial relationship between special ed teachers and the parents. Well I dont know if you have much experience in this but the IEP system sets that up. What you have basically is the school wanting to do as little as possible for your kid while you want them to do the most. For example, they might write in a math goal into the IEP that says junior will count to 10 by one year. Well you as a parent know junior is counting to 20 at home already so you ask that to be increased to 100. They want the easy goal, you want the higher goal. So you have an IEP battle.
Have you ever sat in on an IEP meeting? If notHERE is a list of things parents should remember. If you read them you can see why the parent-teacher relationship can be hostile.
I can concede the point that many parents of special ed kids want to much. However I feel thats balanced out by the parents who accept on face value everything the school tells them and are to intimidated to ask for more.
Finally I’d like to add that yes, I’m a little scarred by the fact of some issues we had while my son was in school. Ex. the above mentioned time they tried to fake my sons handwriting and pass it off as an example of his work.