CNN just announced that Schwarzenegger has denied ‘Tookie’ Williams’s request for clemency.
Discussion of the appropriateness of the death penalty aside, I’d have to say that 99% of the time the governor should let stand the laws of a state and the decisions of a jury and judge.
It’s greta that Tookie has changed his murderous ways and helped others. If there’s a God I’d suspect he’ll take that into account. But barring some overwhelming mitigating factor, this is probably the correct judgement. Harsh, but correct. I can’t think of any scenario whereby everyone comes out of this satisfied.
I hope he’s made his peace and I hope the families of the four men he was convicted of murdering will soon make theirs.
As a political decision, this will destroy any credibility Ah-nold has. I predict the landslide that replaces him at the next election at 75%.
Death penalty is never correct, if you ask me. And in this case, the persecuting mother, whom I saw on TV a few hours ago in our local (=Dutch) news, is like any other gang member - if they take one of yours, you take one of them. You see it a lot in court, and I think it’s sad. This man was a rare example of someone who benefitted society from within prison. Replacing the death-penalty with a life-sentence would therefore have been by far the better choice. I find I’m having trouble adding a ‘imho’ at the end of this, rather than something more suitable for the pit.
Boo freakin’ Hoo!
The fact still stands that he ruthlessly killed 4 people.
Arwin, what and who is a “persecuting mother”? Do you mean the mother of one of the two women or two men Tookie murdered, bragging and laughing about the gurgling sounds they made after they’d been shot? If so, how does that make her persecuting?
And when you maybe help discredit an institution you first created and popularized, a drug dealing murderous gang, to call that “benefiting society” might be, oh I don’t know, a bit of a stretch? All he can do is get back to par for a previous misdeed. Nothing in society has ever benifitted from Tookie’s presence.
I think he may have meant “prosecuting”. Though really it is the state that is the prosecuter, not the mother.
I’m against the death penalty for the simple reason that out judicial process is FAR (and they don’t let me make capital letters big enough for this) from perfect. I’d rather send people to prison for life without the posibility of parole, rather than executing them ala middle ages. The purpose of punishment and removal from society is served, it is cheaper, and although we may end up sending innocent people to jail, at least we won’t kill them, and hopefully they can be freed at some point in the future.
Today I heard the interview of Robert Clark, who was convicted of rape based on the testimony of the victim, who was found innocent of any crime because of DNA testing. He served 25 years in prison and he was innocent.
*kezami "Boo freakin’ Hoo!
The fact still stands that he ruthlessly killed 4 people" *
For 25 years it was an accepted “fact” that Mr. Clark was a rapist. He is not.
And once we execute Tookie, they’ll magically return to life!
And how, precisely, is society going to benefit from his death. To the extent that he is to blame for creating the gang culture in the US, would society not be far better off by allowing him to live and continue to work to correct the problem he allegedly created?
Correction! He was convicted of ruthlessly killing 4 people. He had assuredly as COFOUNDER of the Crips street gang took part in and facilitated the murders of many many others.
I join in… Boo freakin’ Hoo.
If he was really “reformed” and repetent, he’d understand the greater reasons why he was going to die.
I haven’t been following this case too closely, but as I understand it, they haven’t been petitioning for clemency on the grounds that there’s some evidence that Tookie could be innocent. They’re petitioning for clemency because of the things he’s done while he’s been in prison.
I’d certainly be all for the former. In fact, I’d be all for stopping the death penalty because our justice system is imperfect, and therefore innocent people will be executed.
But I don’t really think the latter (which I believe is actually the case here) is fair. It would be another example of someone benefitting from being famous, while someone who is a model prisoner but not famous would still be executed in the same circumstances.
Yep. Writing books for kids will do little to keep kids out of gangs. Telling the authorties all that you know about the organizational structure and other secrets of the gang that you co-founded and telling all that you know about the hundreds of murders and other crime that the gang has committed so that there can be justice for the thousands of victims of the Crips will do way more to that end.
I won’t shed a tear for Tookie.
Williams has always said he did not commit the crimes – that his defense was botched; the key witnesses, opportunistic liars facing hard time themselves; and the prosecutors, so intent on nailing the menacing leader of the Crips, that they ignored evidence pointing to others and away from him.
“I have never had any faith in the system – period,” he said. “I’ve never received justice in my entire life.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/25/AR2005112500950_2.html
The prosecution’s side of the story. WARNING: PDF! Also it’s pretty long.
I’m not surprised. A governor typically will not give clemency in most any case. In most states there is an office that works to review pardon and clemency requests and 99% of the time U.S. governors follow their recommendation (and most of the time that recommendation is to deny clemency.)
I don’t see how this would at all contribute to Arnold losing an election. Most California governors don’t grant clemency requests. I’d say the budget and legislative quagmire Arnold is in would be the main reason he won’t get reelected.
Arnold’s approval ratings are pretty low. Of course then again, so are the State legislature’s. Californians in general don’t seem to like the people who govern them on the State level.
Of course, Californians also seem unwilling to recognize they are responsible for these people being in office and the retarded ballot initiatives and lack of fiscal foresight by everyone in the State has contributed to the problems California is in. It’s convenient to be a voter though, you get to bitch about whoever is in power and never take responsibility for the fact you helped put them there.
Think you used a broad enough brush there, Butch?
Well, considering 76% of Californians disapprove of the State legislature and something like 63% of Californians disapprove of the Governor, it’s all but impossible a good number of people doing the disapproving did the electing as well.
Let’s rephrase that to:
“it’s all but impossible that a good number of people doing the disapproving weren’t also the ones doing the electing.”
I’ve been emasculated by poor sentence structure and word usage 
.
Hmmm a criminal claiming they’re innocent… thats not very common.
My thoughts exactly. If he was truly apologetic for his life, he would have given up all the information he has about the Crips. He refused. That is not someone who is sorry or sees error in founding one of the most violent and deadly gangs in recent history.
What disturbs me most about this is not the debate about the pros and cons of the death penalty or granting clemancy, but rather the fact that MANY people ('round these parts, at least) seem to have formed their opinions on what the celebrities have said.
Yup, Snoop Dogg has spoken out for Tookie. Snoop Dogg is also a member of the Crips. He’s a gang member and, therefore in my book, a criminal. It is sad how uniformed and easily persueded some people are.