The classic example of someone claiming to have been the first to climb a major peak, but their claim being comprehensively doubted is Cook and Mount McKinley.
Note that Cook took photos to document his achievement and got his companion to sign affidavits, etc. The problem is that subsequent climbs to the summit failed to confirm the details of his account. Even his summit photo has been identified as having been taken elsewhere.
Everest has been well-trodden since without anyone raising similar doubts.
I read that the slopes of Everest are peppered with 175 corpses-none of which were buried. They pop up as the wind alternately deposits and blows away the snow cover . Isn’t this a little gross? Wh can’t the climbers get together and at least decntly bury these pool souls. This would definitely put me off climbing Mt. Everest! :eek:
I got a little absorbed in reading about Everest climbing not too long ago, so I may be able to answer your question, ralph124c. Most of the corpses are quite high up – far beyond the point of possible retrieval. Burial isn’t really possible; even if they covered them with snow, that’s not really a burial, and expending the sort of effort to move bodies is quite life-threatening. Generally, if it’s possible, climbers will push corpses into a crevasse or away from the main thoroughfares, but, nobody really wants to end up being a corpse in order to provide proper burials.
It’s rather horrifying. One individual I read about ended up summiting (with the pictures to prove it) but he died on the way down. The following season, an individual went looking for his body. They found him dangling upside down, hanging off an ice cliff, his skin blackened from the cold exposure. They took his camera to bring back to his wife and newborn son (!) and cut the corpse down to fall into a pit. The individual who found him said he hoped he had died from the fall, and not of exposure because of lack of ability to free himself.
Climbing under those conditions can be quite a nasty affair. There’s a different mindset about human life among many of the veteran climbers that fascinates and horrifies me. Even skilled climbers who have summited multiple times can end up dead. It only takes one mistake, and your judgment is already impaired from the lack of oxygen. Lose a piece of equipment or sustain a minor injury and you could be the next corpse left indefinitely on Everest.
That IS HORRIBLE! Imagine, a young wife left a widow because Dad was so ego-driven I am not superstitious, but the unburied dead are usually bad luck in many cultures-could it be that the recent spate of deaths is beacuse of all those unburied corpses.
I’m not superstitious, so I would say no anyway, but the unburied corpses is nothing new – scroll up for info on Mallory, who was found in 1999 (died on the mountain in 1924). It’s simply a matter of practicality. There’s no way to bring the bodies back and (depending on altitude) no real way to “bury” them in the sense of covering them with earth.
Thanks for the link to the article- what a compelling tale. It reminds me of the book “Touching the Void” by Joe Simpson (Touching the Void - Wikipedia). That story had me on the edge of my chair and sweating as I could not believe the decisions that were made and the almost insurmountable hardship that followed. It is a short read, but jam-packed with emotion. Even at a much more modest elevation, the effects of the environment on the judgement of the climbers if remarkable.
The Karluk (HMCS Karluk - Wikipedia) had similar disastrous results and those poor souls lived in such miserable conditions for nearly a year. Jennifer Niven wrote a book titled “The Ice Master; The Doomed 1913 Voyage of the Karluk” which was written using the diary entries of the men who were on that adventure.
What seems to be a common thread is the sense of bravado and charisma that some of these people have. I cannot imagine enduring any of the conditions that many face in their quest to be first, or to complete the task under even more harrowing conditions (climbing Everest without oxygen). And as mentioned earlier up thread about the Poles who are trying to become the first to summit all 14 of the world’s tallest peaks during winter ascents.
I guess it goes way beyond bravado and charisma. It is highly competitive between countries and between rival climbers. Drive and determination seem to be inadequate descriptors of what is at the heart and soul of these extreme adventurers, whether their trek is vertical or horizontal. In the face against all odds, ‘Mother Nature’ is oblivious to their attempts to reach out and touch her in places that are seemingly forbidden.
There must be some unquenchable thirst that drives these people. They have such a mental toughness about them that to claim to have been to the “top” when they hadn’t been seems to be something that would completely go against their grain. These sorts of people have a mental toughness that is like armour. Often it can work to their detriment if conditions are just right; they slowly succumb to the effects of hypoxia, etc. A strange madness overcomes them and they are then swallowed up by Mother Nature.
Also, have there not been incidents where climbers have simply been left to die?
I remember reading (no cite) about a climber who was immobilized by exhaustion and/or cold directly on the climbing route and was doomed to die should he not receive assistance. Other climbers simply stepped over him.
Their reasoning for abandoning the immobilized climber was that it took all of their resources to ensure their own survival and to assist the immobilized climber would result in their own deaths as well.
I find the prospect of someday summiting Everest the easy way both inspirational and disheartening at the same time. But if I had the money, I think I would do it.
Suppose you were to carry a small altimeter, with a non-tamperable upper marking system. Would this answer the critics? You could say, yeah, I made it to 29,000 feet-here’s the proof!
Given that a helicopter has landed on the summit I would qualify this to say that there’s no way to retrieve the bodies at a price that anyone currently wants to pay.
Various Googling doesn’t seem to indicate any strong consensus on this. I don’t think anyone’s saying it’s impossible they made it, simply that there’s insufficient evidence to allow a reliable conclusion either way.
the birds do get a nibble or two from the bodies. i followed the search for mallory expedition in '99. it was quite the tale and i have about 8 pounds of books telling the tale.
hillary was very upset at the way everest has been treated from the trash, to the way climbers treat each other, to the sherpas. he couldn’t understand how a climber could just step over someone and not help them, even if it meant not summiting.
personally i like my hands way, way, to much to risk losing bits of them just to stand on top of a mountain. i think about the doctor who came so close to death, he managed to live but has very severe amputations on both arms (he is one of the people in the “into thin air” book). nope, not for me.
Yes - such as Beck Weathers on the expedition described in Into Thin Air. Weathers survived, though. His story can be read in his book. It also gives an insight to the mindset of at least this one guy and why he would leave his family to pursue such a dangerous activity.
I would say that isn’t true. While there are some who believe that, there are many well respected Everest climbers who don’t feel that Malory and Irvine could have scaled that route in their condition, with their skills, and with the gear they had. David Breshears, one of the most highly respected Everest mountaineers in the world, thinks they didn’t make it after he investigated the route and climbed up there.
And Moms, leaving widowers. Welcome to the world of high altitude mountaineering, and pretty much any significant mountain activities.
