Obama said he didn’t deserve the award. Spin that however you wish.
As you like.
So you are willing to cite his decision that he didn’t deserve the award but not his decision to accept it anyway for whatever personal or diplomatic reasons. Got it.
So what he didn’t deserve it - the point is - its not exactly cricket to blame him for that, the people to be angry at are the committee, not the award recipient. Especially when he didn’t lobby for it, and has said himself he doesn’t deserve it.
Stop expecting people to behave logically, because they fucking don’t.
Yes, the ones who **should **get the blame if this was a mistake are the Nobel committee members, but it’s not going to work that way.
I haven’t heard a single person blaming Obama for being chosen. Everyone knows he was as surprised as the rest of us when the Prize was announced.
I do see people blaming the committee. And I do see people blaming Obama for accepting the award when he knows he doesn’t deserve it.
It is this last one which rankles me the most. It is upsetting because he could have made a stand for peace, and done a lot for peace, and quieted his opponents, by gracefully and graciously and eloquently declining the award. But hubris is a sneaky bastard, who snagged Obama just like a host of people before him.
Oh, right, I forgot that there’s lots of folks out there who are unaware that he decided to accept the prize, so it needs a citation …
Do people have to spell out all of the issues and list all of the considerations and recap the entire discussion for you every time, Gyrate? I figured that anyone who was following the story knew Obama had decided to accept the Prize, but if you missed that part, go back to the beginning and start over.
Or if you didn’t miss that part, but are protesting on behalf of the misled masses that I am deceiving, for the edification of those who are not following the bouncing ball maybe you could cite “his decision to accept it anyway for whatever personal or diplomatic reasons.” Reveal the secret truth that you claim I’m trying to keep hidden from the uninitiated, the gory facts that I want everyone to overlook but you won’t let me.
And the consequences of this splendid gesture, turning away a sincere but unwarranted compliment? Whats the diplomatic euphemism for that? “Non-acceptance”? Gotta have something without hints of “spurn” or “refuse”. “Take this prize and shove it, melon-farmers!” is, of course, right out!
Imagine the subtle tensions in the face of the Norwegian ambassador, Mr. Tor Lappdancer as he tries to read the press release regarding the gracious “forget it” of our President, without looking like he’d just bitten into a piece of tragically outdated stinknfisk.
Not that there’d be any problem with that, no diplomatic issues. I mean, really,* Norway*? The subconscious of Scandinavia, who cares?
I might recommend otherwise, but clearly this is a momentous issue, and one that demands a dramatic and unequivocal gesture, “stones”, I think it was. Not flinging it in their faces, no, certainly not, but a gesture that wouldn’t be possible for someone without brass ones. So many of history’s shrewdest diplomatic maneuvers, the ones that win hearts and minds, are crude, blunt, and offensive.
I mean, assuming that a humble and gracious acceptance simply isn’t harsh enough…
I could point out that Gyrate was referring to the weight you place on part of Obama’s acceptance speech that you can use (doesn’t deserve) while not giving equal heft to the part you can’t (accepting the award), but you probably already knew that. Guess I didn’t need to point that out. Not like you to completely miss the point of a post. Your post was just some kind of cunning feint.
elucidator and Harborwolf, perhaps you might let Gyrate answer for himself, as I have absolutely no interest in discussing this with either of you.
Note the date.
Note the events since the date.
Yeah, Barack Obama deserved to win the Nobel.
<Quest> I HATE radiation poisoning. </Quest>
I am, of course, bereft and inconsolable. As honored as I am to be scorned by a hysterical little pissant like yourself, its an honor I cannot accept… Of course, the decision is entirely yours, you answer or not as you choose.
Perhaps someone else can bring this up, someone who fits within your sternly defined standards for honesty and civility. Starving Artist or Shodan, for instance…
If this award is as wildly unpopular as you so shrilly insist, why should it take “stones” to refuse it? What sort of courage is required to perform a politically popular act? Don’t most politicians crave an opportunity like that? And yet you seem to believe that such a refusal would be an act of political courage, a Profile in Testicles.
Why is that?
Of course, for myself, having voted for him by reason of trusting his judgement, I rather assume he consulted with advisers on this thing, and made the best choice of a bad lot, in his judgement. But that’s just me, and who am I in comparison to the widely respected British pundit Whats-her-face?
You realize, of course, that nuclear disarmament is as much in the strategic interest of the US now as nuclear proliferation was in 1960? During the Cold War, we needed nukes to keep the Soviets from invading Western Europe, since no combination of European and American conventional forces (stationed in Europe) would have been able to repel them.
Now, we’re the ones with the overwhelming advantage in conventional forces, and nuclear weapons are the equalizer for our enemies instead of our allies- so it is in our interest, and not necessarily in anyone else’s, for us to demand that that the world lay down (or stop seeking) nuclear weapons- so we can continue to invade sovereign states at the drop of a hat, without worrying too much about them shooting back.
I’m sure Obama has the best intentions here, and no intention at all of invading anyone, but it pays to bear in mind that nuclear disarmament is no longer the province of the peaceniks.
Whatever.
Good comeback. Are you going to try “your mom” jokes next?
I think I’ll try your mom, 'cause I hear she has sexual intercourse in exchange for currency, goods, or services!
Nope.
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elucidator claimed over and over that there was no significant opposition to Obama winning the award. After giving him quotes, and cartoons, and internet polls supporting my point of view, he continued to abuse me for my stupidity in believing that public opinion wasn’t on Obama’s side in this one.
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I then posted a gallup poll showing that 61% of Americans thought Obama didn’t deserve the Peace Prize, and invited elucidator to acknowledge that he was wrong.
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Instead, elucidator came back to attack me even harder, without acknowledging anything at all.
So in reply to his latest farrago of unmitigated bullshit, I replied “Whatever …”
Not because it is a brilliant argument, but because I don’t discuss things with people who go on the attack rather than admit they have made an error.
elucidator is not known for ever admitting he was wrong (save the occasional “mea dumbass” in return to a scolding from a mod). He has had wide and varied experience at not admitting when he was wrong and, has built up considerable resistant strength accordingly. Still, it doesn’t matter because everyone can see it anyway, and it merely leaves him looking stubbornly and foolishly prideful.
Excessive pride isn’t something one normally associates with aging dirty hippies, but there ya go. 
When have you ever admitted you were wrong? :dubious:
ETA: Not that you’re wrong about luci, but people, glass houses, stones, etc.
If the time ever comes that I am, you can certainly expect that I will acknowledge it.
I’m kidding, of course. Do a search of my user name with “apology” or “apologize” and you’ll see numerous instances where I’ve not only admitted I was wrong but apologized accordingly.
People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw parties?
Hey, here’s an instance where I was wrong:
I don’t know where the hell that comma came from. My apologies to the confused reader.
My impression has been that there is a peculiar definition of what is the opposition that we are talking about, it is more like a “meh” opposition or the one that means “I despise it?” The same USAToday/gallup reported also that: “When asked if they were personally glad that Obama won the award, 46% said they were and 47% said they were not glad.”
I would say that it is silly to take an absolute position on this ad populum argument.