Went to a coffee shop that only accepts Venmo as payment. I’m not mad about it or anything. I was just currious about the legality of it all. I vaguely remember being taught in school that businesses have to accept cash as legal tender.
Is this no longer a thing? (Assuming it ever was)
Of course, it’s legal. They could only accept Monopoly money if they chose… of course, they wouldn’t sell very much coffee.
That topic has come up here before, and the answer seems to be “yes,” because while cash is legal tender, there is no federal law that says that a private business (or person) must accept it.
This web page, from the Federal Reserve, spells this out.
Legal tender for debts.
You don’t owe them a debt.
In Philadelphia, all businesses must accept cash. It was made into law a few years back
The answer from the Fed itself is that it is legal.
I see I was ninja’d
I stand corrected… local or state law can force them to accept cash. Where is the business located?
Go to a Capital One coffee shop. Ask to exchange bills for rolls of coins. This “bank” doesn’t do that. But you can get a coffee.
This is the answer.
This topic was beaten to death in a thread a while ago. The question then became “when is a debt created?” Obviously, I would assume when a contract is concluded and one side “delivers the goods”, but really, this is a topic for a real lawyer with knowledge of contract law to chime in on.
But if one side says “I only accept monopoly money” when you walk into the shop, and the other side continues to proceed with the transaction, they have consented to that arrangement and cannot resort to the “legal tender” argument.
IIRC, the “legal tender” concept became law right after the Revolution, when American script was becoming worthless and creditors began demanding hard cash - i.e. British money, gold, etc. - to settle debts.
So, I accept the Venmo Only terms, get my $5 coffee, and don’t pay in Venmo. What is it I now owe them if not a debt? They are defining what I owe them in US Dollars, but then assert that physical US dollars are not acceptable to discharge the debt? I could see that being tricky, particularly when the police arrive and I’m waving a fiver saying “Here’s the $5 they want, they just won’t take it!”
They can refuse to do business with me, but once they do business, I accrue a debt that can be paid with cash.
I would also suggest that there is no payment contract that can be legally enforced without ultimately being payable in physical US dollars. If you claim I violated the contract, we’ll wind up in court, and I will be found liable for a debt that can be paid in dollars.
@Cheesesteak. You’re about to relitigate the exact scenario / thread @md-2000 mentions just above. See starting here
then proceeding intermittently for a while then really picking up speed around post 58 & subsequent.
It appears the legal answer is in the absence of local law requiring them to accept US cash, you’re either paying with Venmo, leaving the merch behind, or shoplifting. Take your choice of actions and corresponding consequences.
Bottom line is they are no more required by law to accept US cash than they are to accept e.g. Japanese cash.
What coffee shop is giving you coffee before you’ve paid for it?
Agreed. And, as was shown in the links to the Federal Reserve’s website above, regardless of whether a consumer insists that a business must accept U.S. currency for a purchase, there is not, in fact, a law which says so.
Dammit, I knew there was a flaw in my devious plan.
The you-are-required-to-accept-currency-for-debts principal is the definition of legal tender and pretty much all countries that have currency have such a law.
Didn’t a lot of the airlines enact a no-cash policy for beverage purchases?
They did, and not just beverages but all in-air purchases (so including that snack, the pillow, etc.).
They could make you pay cash in cash.
yes, it would be a consequence of a government’s printed money replacing actual pieces of gold and silver. Which IIRC evolved about the same time as the American Revolution for most countries.
This was my question in the other thread, and never got an answer from a real lawyer.
You walk up to a store self-checkout machine. It warns to they only take credit, not cash, and agree to proceed. Without that warning and agreement, what is the process at which you create a debt - when is it a debt, not an offer to purchase? When must they accept cash?
We can argue, but a lawyer who knows needs to give an opinion. Which, like all legal opinions, is opinion unless there is precedent to back it up.
but if you agree to proceed (debit and credit only) when the initial offer to sell is made then you have agreed to a condition.
Deep in US Banking regs, there is a clause about this, but it is for banks etc only, and it has no enforcement regs. I assume it is a placeholder just in case several banks start demanding Euros or Gold. Those are good cites. And of course, with Venmo, you are paying in USD.
I am gonna guess that if you order the coffee, and then say “Oh, Venmo only? I thought that just meant no checks or credit cards? Silly me, I only have cash.” one of two things would occur- they would not give you the coffee or having handed it over, they’d just take the Fiver as a tip, and not worry about it. As long as you don’t make a huge fuss, they would be idiots to call the cops, because for one thing- copes HATE being called for trivial shit- and another, any one individual cop might say “He has the coffee, there is the $5, what’s the big deal?”
So yeah, it is legal for a retail business to do this. Quite a few will only take Credit cards. Cash can be expensive to deal with, despite the fact CC companies charge a % or 2.