In light of this latest development, is the presentation made by Powell still as convincing?
If the evidence is the same, why should the origin of the speech presenting it be an issue?
Jeff
Assuming that the news story is correct, the title should be “British Government Plagiarizes”. Powell did not claim to be the source for the document; hence, he cannot be said to have “plagiarized” anyone, since he was not taking credit for the production of the document in question.
Okay, but did he indicate what the source of the information was? Everyone I’m sure, was assuming it was from the security apparatus of the US or England.
It says right in the article that it was from the British government.
I am sure that Powell said it was from them. And it was. Where they got it from is the question.
Well, I actually listened to CP’s speech yesterday (got a temp job with lots of hands, no brains, can listen to the radio). While he didnt actually say “This is the super secret top drawer whoopty-whoopty evidence from ultra-heavy James Bond intelligence sources” he let the implication hang there. Not actually dishonest, but not 100% kosher either. If he had said “This is from an article published last Sept. in an academic journal” that would have taken so of the ooomph out of it.
He’s been hanging around the Bushista’s too long. Whats that line about a diplomat being an honorable man sent forth to lie for his country?
In certain respects the evidence isn’t the same. I don’t have the relevant sections to hand, but for example, criticism of the report on tonight’s news over here claimed that some of the accusations made against Iraq in the grad student’s thesis related to the run-up to their invasion of Kuwait, not to current developments. The student acknowledged the relevant date, but the British Government’s document did not.
Here’s a link to the news channel that highlighted the problem: Downing St dossier plagiarised.
Hey, I’ve got news for you - a lot of the evidence Powell used came from Israeli Intelligence. And some of it came from Australian Intelligence as well as British Intelligence.
It might be worth noting to some people that these countries are Allies. They share information. They trust each other. And Powell was not just speaking for the U.S., but for them as well.
Sharing intelligence is highly commendable, but just when did we appoint Colin Powell as our Foreign Minister?
Mind you Powell for Alexander Downer would be a pretty good swap, and having got him we sure wouldn’t be sharing him.
Sam, can you parse out what is from Israeli intelligence from what is not? Speaking for myself, I would have to take evidence from Mossad with more than a grain of salt. Israel cannot possibly be described as a disinterested bystander, they definitely have a dog in this fight. And I have read entire books about the brilliance and the dedication? fanaticism? of Mossad. Please don’t tell me we’re going to war because we’re taking Mossad intelligence reports at face value! Might as well take Kuwaiti intelligence reports about Iraqi conspiracies…oh. Wait. We do.
And Australians? The Aussies have secret intelligence operatives undercover in the Middle East? Huh? It brings to mind images of Crocodile Dundee as Lawrence of Arabia!
Or Steve(O) Irwin as James Bond.
“Crickey, she’s a little nippa’.”
Yes, the Australians have intelligence assets there. That’s their part of the world, and they have huge muslim populations nearby.
Here’s some of what Australian Intelligence does.
Sam, I’m really missing something here. “That’s thier part of the world” As in, huh? Australia, right? That big ol’ island off i the middle of the South Pacific?
Perhaps Sam is referring to Indonesia, the country with the highest population of Muslims in the world.
Then again, maybe it’s something different.
I was indeed talking about Indonesia. But Australia has active intelligence in the Middle East as well.
And so does Canada, and no doubt dozens of other countries. It’s a very important part of the world, and no one wants to be caught nappin’.
White House defends dossier - BBC
Could not help but notice this.
[Monster.com]:
White House / State Department needs proofreader. Flexible hours, great benefits. Work in a fast paced environment with some of the world’s most powerful leaders. Typing a must. [/M.c]
None of us know, or will tell, or should tell, just what parts of Powell’s speech came from who or where.
(Specifics, mind you; it’s rather obvious that the photos came from a satellite or otherwise an overhead imagery system, and the communications interceptions came from some sort of “communications interception” device…)
(as a followup, I am not talking about the obviously-plagarized UK document. As I remember, Powell did not read it. He only mentioned it as “the great dossier published by the UK” or somesuch.)
The BS in some of these posts about what countries have “intelligence assets” here and there reminds me of the saying about intelligence.
“Those who talk don’t know, and those who know don’t talk.”
You know, that’s not really much of an argument.
Are you saying that these countries DON’T have intelligence operations in the Middle East?
Since you didn’t provide an argument, I don’t know what you are actually disagreeing with.
But hey, if you don’ t believe me, you’re welcome to go read for yourself.