“Look, I just want all Muslims to admit that they’re deluded and wrong. Is that too much to ask?”
Yes we say you making the excuses and claims before, and of course we all know that Deutsche Welle, Reuters, etc are well known for purely inventing things… as I linked before…
Sterile to converse on this, your own words serve as the response.
If this is true, why, then, do you post that nonsense you did in post #78?
“Directly related”? How so? If you compare Pakistan to its direct neighbour and rival India, the differences are fairly minor, even though Muslims in India are a minority. A thing that is holding both countries back is an extreme traditionalism, especially in rural areas. But that is not tied to any specific religion.
Is it really Islam that makes Saudi Arabia a monarchy? Or is it maybe rather Arabian tradition? After all no Islamic state outside Arabia (except for little Brunei) has an absolute monarchy.
If I look at continents where Islamic and non-Islamic states are mixed (Asia, Africa) It does not seem that one have a dramatically better track record in terms of democracy than the other.
Gosh, that’s a formula for success! Imagine if Christians had done that 500 years ago when they were all torturing and warring with each other. Just accept it!
I don’t think that’s true. Economically, India is held back by the vestiges of a planned economy which persisted in parts through the 1980s. Also, massive corruption. Pakistan is held back by even worse corruption and unstable government. Both countries are arguably held back by sectarian violence, which probably limits foreign investment.
In the past, West Pakistan (Pakistan of today) was comfortably better than India in terms of development and in terms of wellbeing of citizens (parameters of HDI etc).
India has alot of distance to travel but today it is better than Pak in GDP per capita, education, HDI etc. A small but symbolic example - Pak is one of the very few nations which is not polio free.
Compare fertility rates - India is down to 2.3 children per woman in year 2013 (Today in 2015, I think most Indians are having even less babies - 1,2 or zero babies). High Fertility rate is related to lack of literacy, lack of gender equality etc.
Indians are in large percentages in most MNCs. CEOs of Microsoft, Google, Adobe, Pepsico, Mastercard etc are Indians (thanks to the culture of these companies to a great extent). IBM has more Indian born employees than American born employees. India is becoming the pharma capital of the world. If Pak had less religion, it would have good chance of having equivalent representation.
Mumbai attacks in 2008 were similar to Paris attacks. Noone can touch the masterminds in Pak (Hafiz Saeed, Lakhvi) since they regarded as state heroes by many.
If they claim that they are governed as per Islam you have to lay the blame on Islam. They have huge reserves due to oil money. So, they could have been far better to their citizens.
That statement is indubitably true for Pakistan. But you would have a lot of work cut out for you if you want to make it for India, and much more so if you want to put both countries in the same bracket in terms of sectarian violence. The last major episode of sectarian violence in India occured in Gujarat in 2001, but over the period 2000-2014 it received 10 Billion USD in Foreign Direct Investment, which placed it 5th among ~30 Indian states, and 3rd if you don’t consider the states with the major metros of Bombay and Delhi. Total FDI inflows into India during this period were 236 Billion USD, and forPakistan ~25 Billion USD
I’m wondering where it is in either the Qur’an or the Hadith that it’s stated that Islam requires a country to have a monarchy.
The Kandhamal mess in Orissa is rather more recent. And of course disentangling political vs. sectarian violence can be complicated. And everybody is getting an ugly share - just as with the anti-Muslim activity by the Bodos above, separatist Christian militants in Tripura and Nagaland have certainly done their share of harm to local Hindu communities, with accusations of forced conversion certainly adding a sectarian tinge.
I don’t really know how much sectarian violence and at times as above loosely related problems like sectarian-tinged violent regional separatism is holding back the Indian economy. But one assumes it has some of impact, on the local scale if nothing else. There are definitely still problems that need solving.
Saudi court sentences poet to death for renouncing Islam (20th Nov.) -
I was addressing a claim specific to foreign investment in India. Which is why I noted the last major incident of sectarian violence that is likely to be widely known outside India.
But even to the larger point of limiting economic activity, I disagree that sectarian/religious violence is significantly limiting economic activity in India. There is no doubt some effect, but is it likely to be even in the top 10 issues affecting the Indian economy? I can say with some degree of confidence that it is not. Whereas for Pakistan, you could make a very good case that religious extremism and related violence and instability are in the top 3 issues holding their economy back.
If you feel the need, open a new thread to discuss the issue in Great Debates or a new thread in The BBQ Pit to decry the action.
Do not attempt to derail this thread with off-topic posts.
[ /Moderating ]
I suppose the next goalpost shift will be ‘but those were political not religious’, but Daesh still has many years to go before they can start comparing to The Troubles, or the whole mess of Christianity, colonialism, and exploitation in South America. Killing coreligionists goes way, way back.
Don’t think it’s an off topic post.
You are wrong. Your post had nothing to do with Muslims condemning terrorism or even with the sidebars that have developed in this thread.
[ /Moderating ]