So we burn the whole thing down because, 10% of the teams in college athletics are creating 90% of the problems?
How about if the numbers show that 90% of the programs are corrupt? Because that’s far more likely. Just making shit up isn’t very persuasive.
Not like I’m a Paterno apologist or anything, but it is also important to note the psychology of people in these situations. I used to see this a lot when I worked in litigation consulting with corporate fraud and corruption cases. Penn State, especially the football program is an institution with a strong culture. Like any institution, the members buy into the culture and identify with being part of it. Often their career, livlihood and social network is strongly ingrained. They unite against any threat to that institution - external or internal.
Often, when people encounter some sort of criminal activity or corruption within a large institution like a school, sports team, company and so on it can be very difficult for them to do something about it. They don’t know if they will be viewed as a hero or as a pariah. It can also be very isolating as they don’t really know who to trust or how far the corruption goes. And there is the knowledge that they could not only be destroying their lives, but the lives of innocent people who just also happened to be connected with the institution.
Everyone likes to think they would do the right thing in a similar situation. But how many people here, living paycheck to paycheck to support their family, would willingly blow the whistle on something that could destroy their livlihood? Do you tell your wife and kids that it’s ok you’re living in a van by the river because you “did the right thing”?
That’s why the system itself must be self-policing.
If I were to design a system that is actually supposed to work (s opposed on that’s designed to cover up corruption, as the present one does), it would necessarily include regular, reinforced instruction in whistle-blowing, and would provide a means of protecting those who report while punishing those who fail to report.
For example, in my own case as an instructor pressured to change the grades ofstudent-athletes, I would have been made aware (as I was not) that if I were approached by anyone attempting to change the grades I submitted, I MUST immediately report this person to an NCAA rep (or someone similar), and failing to report any attempts to change the grade of a student-athlete would result in severe penalties for ME, while reporting that person would protect me from any charges of corruption.
This message would be re-inforced in public, in private, in my contract with the university, and in regular sessions offered by the university assuring me that any such attempt will not be tolerated, and that it is better to mistakenly file such a report than to allow an incident to go unreported.
That’s right. And we’re waiting for you to present some evidence besides anecdotes. Everyone acknowledges that at big division 1 schools, especially in football and basketball, there are major problems. But that doesn’t make your case. Show the numbers.
Do you have any supporting evidence for this or did you just make it up?
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Sorry Lamar… we now all know that your tutor wrote this and apparently all of your past posts since we now know that 90% of people like you are illiterate. I bet if we searched it is also plagiarized.
Because the Olympics are squeaky clean?
posted too soon
No, but they’re mostly free from the commercial exploitation of popular sports, like football, soccer, etc.
Corporate interests have done their best to associate their brands with athletics of all kinds, but most of track & field is still free from the wh*ring that is standard practice in the major popular sports.
I don’t think it’s likely that college sports would be banned in America and, as has been pointed out, the problems discussed do not appear to cut throughout all American universities.
Still, there are problems. Other than the OMG JOCKS ARE CHEATING problem-- which only has anecdotes to back it up, allegations of drug use (in a university? never!), criminals in schools (I knew a few students who routinely broke laws, and the only sport they played was a little pick up basketball), cheating (easy to find recent examples for that), and all the rest of gonzomax’s post, there’s the fact that it wouldn’t be hard to describe players in the big programs as exploited.
There’s so much money in college football, mainly in TV, but also in merchandise, ticket sales, all that. The players see none of it, at least not as cash money. The Pac 12 alone is worth something like $250 million annually to Fox and ESPN. But players who earn that money cannot receive workman’s compensation if injured on the job. Are some scholarships sweet deals? Sure, I would’ve loved free tuition, room and board, meal allowance and all the rest, but it’s chump change compared to what the schools and networks are bringing in. I reckon players should strike.
You’re asking if I have evidence for a statement that begins by asking “How about…”? I am providing my small body of evidence (years of teaching and observation), you are providing nothing but your assumptions, wishes, and fantasies. We’re both working off a small body of ev
You’re asking if I have evidence for a statement that begins by asking “How about…”? I am providing my small body of evidence (years of teaching and observation), you are providing nothing but your assumptions, wishes, and fantasies. We’re both working off a small body of evidence, only mine actually exists and yours exists only inside your head.
Which was my point. You just posted something you clearly made up along with the clarification “Because that’s far more likely.” and then in the next breath stated that made up facts aren’t persuasive… so why did you post it in a debate?
No, I’m posting my years of experience with athletes, time spent with coaches, reading statistics and studying about the expectations of student athletes at various universities and meeting with numerous current and past student athletes to discuss their experiences.
I guess now I understand your logic… your experience and observation equal facts… mine equal fantasy.
This is also demonstrably not true.
Why go overboard in the other direction and ban athletics? Just remove the whole money angle and let students play sports as way to stay healthy and to build team spirit and so on. Without money as incentive, the whole corrupt system won’t stay.
To compare for example to German universities (we don’t have colleges): people study a subject, and in their free time, they can join the Uni sports club for fitness or learning a new sport, to meet people. In some disciplines, there are also uni teams that compete against other unis. But because no big deal is made of it and no money made, most students don’t even know about this, or care.
People can even study sports as subjects - not to become pro athletes, but because they were good at sports at school and want to become sports teachers, or to study and research movement, ergonomics, stress, health etc. in sports. (Lots of research in that area has changed warm-up and aerobic moves since the 70s, when a lot of practises were found to be actually harmful for the body).
I’m in danger of making my position misunderstood. I’m not in favor of shackling college students, just of eliminating huge college athletic programs that exist to enrich the university at a tremendous cost to the educational process. As I said, I’ve enjoyed participating in intramural atheletics, and I’ve served as faculty advisor to athletic teams that were not hopelessly corrupt (though there were some issues). But a process in which the coach of a football is by far the highest paid member of the university is on the face of it obviously corrupted.
But probably not as effective.
Totally disagree. College sports serve a valid purpose of instilling school pride and spirit, but more importantly, it is most schools biggest marketing tool. The expansion of college athletics attract a wider variety of students that want to be a part of the legacy and history that the athletic programs have created. There are thousands of colleges in the US. Only about 130 have large scale athletic programs. If certain students wish to go to a school where the atheletic programs are not so heavily emphasized there are hundreds to choose from, more than the other way around. There’s no reason to throw out the baby with the bath water. And only a handful of college athletic programs are money makers for the schools. Most operate at a deficit…but it is the unmeasured intangibles that I mentioned, such as marketing, etc. that cause the other hundred or so to continue to invest in their athletic programs.
ETA: Why do you care how much the head football coach makes? There’s a demand for high quality coaches and a limited number of people that can actually be successful…that’s why their salaries are so high. It’s not about corruption.
here is some more anecdotal evidence for you…i know professors at UK who say they have NEVER been asked to goose a students grade. and one in particular who says that cheating and plagiarism is a problem…with regular students. with the reputation that UK has (or had in the past), does this refute YOUR anecdotal evidence? i mean a big SEC school with a top basketball program where professors say they DON"T cheat? well of course they must be lying.
cheating happens, we all know it and it is not restricted to student-athletes. you know that there is BIG money involved (see my previous post about what the athletics department at UK contributes). but maybe, because there is so much money involved, it makes people want to act in the right way so that the money is not jeopardized? i don’t know. i think it would me, but i am not an AD. i just know that i would not risk 10’s of millions of dollars so that a few players can get a C instead of a D. my job, reputation, the reputation of the school, the penalties and the lives of the athletes are just not worth it.