The fact that the system is set up to discourage whistle-blowers speaks volumes. (See Mcqueary, if you want an example.) He should have found himself with no choice, and a clear path to report what he saw. But the system is set up to discourage rather than encourage reporting of corruption. Why is that?
We should probably start a separate thread for this, but your logic is appalling. Teachers of mathematics, who can make clear the complex subject matter, are far rarer than competent or even excellent football coaches, but they simply put a ceiling on what they’re willing to pay even a star math professor, and that’s what they pay him. But for football coaches, the sky’s the limit–again, Why? Corruption, that’s why. If athletics didn’t bring in money, no place to afford to pay millions per year for a coach.
I didn’t say they were lying, you did. I’d probably want to discuss this with them, to make sure you’re reporting their statements accurately, though. Maybe they’re written articles saying what you claim? Can you cite them?
see i said it was anecdotal. which from the terms of the way you are debating can be equaled to facts. maybe i just happen to know the 6 or so professors who escaped this cheating. i can not speak to that.
btw, where are your papers saying that 90% of colleges cheat?
How many people write papers on something that didn’t happen and wasn’t expected to compared to those who have experienced something wrong and unexpected?
You and your friends haven’t published any papers exposing your outrageous experiences… have you?
Oh, wait… your experience and anecdotes… FACT. Others’… FANTASY.
again this comes down to return on investment. there are professors who make close to a million dollars a year at UL and UK. they reside in the medical school, which is attached to an AMC which brings in their respective universities millions and millions of dollars a year. money that is invested in the physical plants of the universities and goes to partially subsidize every professors salary. if math professors think that they provide more value than they are compensated for, then they should address that with the university president. form a union, go on strike. whatever, but it takes money to run a university and the people that bring that money in get compensated accordingly.
I am claiming that 90% of college may be corrupt, based on my own personal experience. (100% of major programs, and a minority of minor programs). What YOU are testifying to is the experience of others, which I would like to see. You may accuse me of inventing my anecdotes, which is your privilege, but I am simply wondering how accurately you’re quoting the experiences of others. Obviouosly, I’m citing my own accurately, unless you choose to think that I am making them up.
You DO NOT have experience at 100% of major program Universities… please stop claiming your experience is universal.
no clue. just as i have no clue that what you are saying is true. i know that as my friends they have no reason to lie to me. it’s not like i am going to do anything except say damn that sucks. and if you would like to see my professor friends well then just drive on down (or up, or sideways) and we can all go out for a beer. maybe you can shadow them for a couple of months to make sure that there is nothing going on and that they didn’t lie to me for no benefit of their own. it’s your time.
btw, i have personal experience that 100% of all French are buttholes. now, my experience is limited to the 6 or so that I have met, but I think that it is reasonable to assume from my first hand experience that ALL of them are raging butts.
100% of the university with major college sports programs that I have worked at.
Obviously.
The invention of strawmen is this discussion is appalling. Did you think–could anyone think–I was claiming to have taught in every university in the country?
My experience is what it is–take it for for what it’s worth. Your passing along other’s experiences, and claiming them to be accurate, is a little less valuable, since the possibility is that you’re misquoting or misconstruing or misunderstanding what they said.
How many schools do you have personal experience with?
I have been employed by six universities in my career.
and since this is the internet and you have anonymity, which universities are you referencing? Alabama? Tennessee? U$C? or Vanderbilt, Stanford, Duke, Michigan? or maybe even those that no one gives a poop about like Western Michigan or Idaho?
maybe it would inform us if you elaborated on YOUR experience. if your major university was Alabama then we might see where you are coming from. maybe you teach at Blue Mountain State?
not really. it is hard not to misunderstand someone when they say they have never been asked to cheat. and given that your word is literally no more valuable than mine…
how do we know you aren’t some 12 year old girl who hacked your daddy’s account? we don’t. i could say that i have been a professor at 15 colleges and refute your claim based on MY personal experience. would it be more valuable then? no it would be the same. anecdotal stories do NOT equal data in ANY form
No, not obviously. That was certainly the way I read it… not that you had taught there but you believed it true of 100% of all major Universities. After all you claimed 90% of all earlier in the thread. Maybe had you said you knew to be true of 6 we may take it more seriously.
After all, I don’t think your OP stated “College athletics should be banned… at these six specific colleges.”
Why would I call for the banning of athletic programs only at the six schools I have drawn a salary from? What would be the point of that? BTW, that’s three schools as a graduate instructor, two as an non-tenured instructor, and one as a tenured professor.
Obviously, I’m working from a very small sample, and you’re free to reject that sampling as too small to be significant. And you’re free to reject my testimony as that of a liar, though what my motivation for inventing anecdotes to back up my position is puzzling to me. I offer my experience as a basis for my thinking, and all I require is that I know it to be true. You are asking me to take your word that your “friends” actually said what you say they did. You could be innocently misrepresenting what they say, and they are not available for this discussion in the same way you or I are, so I have very little use for your version of what you say someone once said to you. Why were having that sdiscussion, for example? “Hey, Charlie, you’ve taught in a college–have you ever been asked to change a student-athlete’s grade?” “No, Arthur, I have never been asked to do so. Why do you ask?” “No reason, Charlie, just maybe it will come up someday in a messageboard debate, so I want to be sure I quote you accurately.”
Why would you call for banning of athletic programs at ALL schools when you only have experience of misdeeds at six?
Because I think that the vast majority of college athletic programs are corrupt. I’m pretty sure I haven’t taught at the only six corrupt schools in the nation, nor that they were all equally corrupt. But they all had that potential, and every program I have seen is set up to dfiscourage reporting, as with Mcqueary and Penn State. How could could a system set up like that possibly prioritize rooting out corruption?
because we were out for a dinner, one of them said that they caught a student using a paper mill to do project. it grew organically from there. i didn’t even ask the question.
but really that is not even the point. the point is that you are using your alleged experience at 6 schools to say that ALL of them cheat and should be banned. but really that is not even the problem, you are certainly entitled to your opinions. the problem is that your anecdotal evidence is better than anyone else’s. i understand why. it is yours. but that in no way makes it an indisputable truth for everyone else. and you automatically discount any anecdotal evidence to the contrary. besides the sweeping generalizations that you are making, you are concretely denying that your experience may not be indicative of the entire system. as a counterpoint…i never said that my (admitted) second hand sources say that cheating does not go on, therefore we should abolish the NCAA as it no longer serves its purpose. that is a giant leap to make, and one that you indeed have.
*ETA - and just as a side-note for anyone reading along. it appears that he deleted the post i was responding to. should have quoted it. but basically he wanted to know how it even came up that i heard that these professors were not asked to cheat.
This is where we disagree.
Did you ever consider you may have a biased view on corruption? I see from your profile you teach literature which is very subjective in regards to grading. Is it possible that you graded something and the student in question who had a tutor qualified in literature and took it to them to have it looked at to see what went wrong. Then, just maybe the qualified tutor disagreed with your assessment and asked you to review it. Then, just maybe you refused to and the tutor had the fortitude that an average student did not and elevated it to a higher authority than you who reviewed it and asked you to reconsider (after reviewing and agreeing with the tutor).
Is it corruption as you charge, or is it someone who has the backing to fight for something more than the average student?
I’m not saying this is what happened in your situation, but it is certainly plausible.
In any case, as far as statistical sampling goes, your experiences in one subjective discipline at six colleges is not significant enough to make a blanket statement that it should be applied to all.