College biology/premed school rankings

In My Humble Opinion
1

As it seems we have our share of biologists around here, I was wondering if any of you would be willing to share your opinions on what are better biology schools out there.

My youngest is currently a HS junior, and for some time now has said she intends to study biology and hopefully go on to med school. I don’t believe she has clarified any specialization within biology.

I’ve uncovered lists including predictabe schools such as:

Harvard University (MA)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Stanford University (CA)
University of California–San Francisco
University of California–Berkeley
Yale University (CT)
Johns Hopkins University (MD)
Rockefeller University (NY)
Washington University in St. Louis
California Institute of Technology
Duke University (NC)
Baylor College of Medicine (TX)
Princeton University (NJ)
University of California–San Diego
Columbia University (NY)
Scripps Research Institute (CA)
University of Pennsylvania

She has great grades and tests well, but I don’t think I care to send her anywhere too terribly pricey unless they pony up considerable cash. Especially if she intends to pursue an MD.

Also, I don’t think she is dying to attend any specific “name” school. Right now she is talking about UofI and Wisconsin - in my opinion, both basically good and affordable schools. How would you choose between those two? Can you suggest any other schools she ought to check out? Maybe some private schools where financial assistance might be available (with her, 3 will be in college at the same time!). Or other schools in the midwest, as she isn’t dying to travel to any specific part of the country.

My thinking is that she ought to go to a really good school, but not worry about the best until she is going to grad/med school. Am I wrong? Would the “right” undergrad make her future that much better?

Thanks in advance. And you can thank this pair of lawyers for not spawning another bloodsucking parasite into this world, but instead, successfully steering all 3 of our kids into legitimate fields of endeavor! :stuck_out_tongue:

2

If she wants to go to grad school in biology, then she’ll need to major in biology or a closely related field, as well as spend as much time as possible working in lab internships. I knew a few chemistry majors in bio grad school (where I spent 2002-2006), but that was as far away as it got. My school didn’t have a computational biology program, or we might have had some compsi people.

On the other hand, if she really wants to go to med school, there’s no reason to major in biology, unless she loves it. The premed requirements actually include very little bio (two semesters with lab), although a lot of the corequisites overlap (organic chemistry, sometimes physics.) The major with the highest rate of admissions to med school is actually philosophy.

All that said, I know almost nothing about biology programs in the Midwest, sorry!

3

Right now (and for some time) she has said that bio is what she most wants to study, so I don’t see any problem with her at least starting out in that direction.

As far as med school, well, a lot could happen in 4 years, and if she ends up not going, I’d be happy if she had a degree in something other than philosophy. But that’s just me.

4

Hey Dinsdale-

I’ll pm you-but my sister just finished medical school with 170K worth of debt :eek: . She went to Northwestern’s Feinberg. Both of us had zero undergrad debt because we went to a public canadian school where we both had scholarships.

Despite the fact that my BIL’s (he’s a CTO) and sister’s combined salary falls into the top 1% of incomes, no bank will give them a home loan on account of their debt-to-income ratio. Thanks be to NU’s insane tuition. My parents are now absorbing her debt for her (so they can buy when the market is low) and she’s going to have to pay them the entirety of her residency salary for the next 4 years.

My impression of her journey to medical school is that it’s almost next to impossible to get in. She had something like a 36 on the MCATs and a 3.9something, got interviewed at places like Harvard and Mayo, and she didn’t get into our state school and was pretty much forced to go to NU. So I wouldn’t bank on necessarily getting into your school’s state school for med. Costs is a long-term projection.

Although, this brings up another point. It is SO fucking tough to get in these days (she made it in first round but I’ve heard that’s pretty rare) that my sister claims she wishes that she’d just done a 7 year med program when she had the chance, since she was planning to become a doctor anyway. I don’t really see the harm in that plan myself-if she’s pretty certain she wants to major in bio she can do that going to someplace like HPME with a guaranteed medical school seat, and then drop out later if she changes her mind. My impression is that if you’re convinced she’s serious about this doctor plan, talk to her about 7 year programs where she’s guaranteed a seat in the medical school because it could save you a lot of trouble and heartache down the road. I’m pretty certain Case Western has one, for example, though NU’s HPME is the obvious one in your neighbourhood.

5

One thing that is nice about UIUC (and I would imagine Wisconsin as well) is that if you change your major and/or career plans then most likely the school has a pretty decent program in whatever your new found love is. I’ve seen people do Finance->Graphic Design, and PreMed/Bio->Engineering with considerable success. The only hitch is that the new department/school has to accept you, but the only people I remember that to be a problem for were those applying to Education.

Also, ISTR that the Engineer was in an Honors Biology program before he jumped ship, perhaps something to look into.

/$0.02 from someone who isn’t even a bio major.

6

You might consider sending her to a really small, cheap school in a place where you’re willing to let her become a resident of that state and where there’s a med school in the state. This will drop the tuition further (though I don’t know what it will do for your/her taxes).

As a resident of a state with a med school (or more), I think she’ll have a better chance of getting into a school there. I can’t swear to this, being not a doctor. Of course, I’m sure you’re in a state with one or more med schools already, but it still might be cheaper to send her out of state, depending on where she goes.

7

Thanks all.

anu, I hadn’t heard of any 7 year med programs. Definitely something to look into. Heck, until recently I didn’t realize at most schools there is no such thing as a premed major!

I really hadn’t thought too much about the med school stuff. Sorta figured we’d get there when we get there. Have told all our kids, tho, that whatever extent we’re going to be willing and able to help them in grad school, we’re really only offering them 4 (or so) years of undergrad. Trying to convince them to choose an undergrad that will at least allow them to be employable, should they end up not going to grad school.

This daughter initially thought she’d like to teach history - mainly after really liking her history teacher. We suggested she might want to consider getting accredited to teach something like math or science, thinking it would be more marketable and since she had never shown any great love for history.

I think she realized she didn’t want to deal with kids, so then she talked performance music on the bassoon. We suggested she at least consider double majors which might be more available at schools other than music conservatories, and suggested music ed or music business.

For over a year or so she’s been saying she would like to be a doctor, and studying bio. Next year she is taking AP bio and anatomy. Heck, she’s 16. Who knows if she’ll still want med school in 4 years let alone 4 months.

I’ve got a couple of friends who are in medical sales, so I could see an MBA being a fine 2d degree - and far more achievable and affordable than med school. Or hell, she could even go into law school, and have something over all the social scientists. Or get a higher degree in bio - or a teacher’s cert. Or, as you mention s&s, she could transfer to any other school. I went from business to PolSci in my junior year, and my roommate went from biophysics to philosophy.

I’ve spent some time looking at the bio programs at UofI and Wisc. They look like fascinating stuff - that I imagine is going to be SO cutting edge in the decades to come. I’m sure it would make my little reptilian lawyer brain ache, tho. You gotta KNOW stuff instead of just bullshitting! :wink: And I know UofI has been pouring tons of resources into this area.

I’ve got a neice who is finishing up at Wash U in St. Louis. An awesome education, I readily acknowledge, but I’m not in the position my BIL is in to underwrite that tuition. And i think my kid will really like the opportunities at a big university. I was just wondering if there were other schools out there that she should check out.

8

I did my undergrad in something else entirely, but did a one year postbac premed program at Hopkins . . . lemme tell you, that place is a premed machine. It’s really freaking hard and competitive, but if you want an environment that’s biological science heavy, there you go. If you have more specific questions I can answer them as well, but in general, I think that if you’re willing to work you ass off Hopkins is a good place to be premed, especially because the research opportunities for bright, motivated, ambitious students are excellent. However, she does have to be extremely competitive and willing to go the extra mile to do better than everyone else around her.

Gestalt

9

I think you should send her to UIUC then. In-state, well-recognised state school (in general) and very strong in the sciences (though best in engineering, of course). I think if she’s analytically strong, she couldn’t do worse than a bio major and a business minor. My sister did this and was recruited to management consulting companies etc. post-graduation.

The advantage of sending her somewhere posh isn’t in the rankings of the departments. I’m sure UCSD might be better in a bio ranking, but if your kid goes to Yale, she’s going to Yale because of the doors it might open for her/the network. Yeah, she could get the same education at UIUC but the same bio major/business minor out of Northwestern means posher network, potentially better job situation (not to mention, EASIER freaking interviewing. Do you know how many times I wanted to shoot myself for ignoring NU’s free application because I was too intimidated to apply even though I had the LSATs?).

Anyway, wherever she goes, just make sure she keeps the GPA high because it counts for a lot.

10

I she decides to stay with the science/med school route, there is something very important that lots of students skip. That is actual research experience in a lab. Most of those positions aren’t advertised. A student just has to talk to favored professors and see what types of things there are to work on. It is free or almost free labor for a professor so they are usually agreeable if they have any space. If she starts early enough (say early sophomore year), it is possible that she could be co-author on a people. If she decides to go to regular grad school, that experience alone is often worth more than grades and test scores. Plus, you get to know a few professors pretty well that way and they can write effective letters few you and maybe even contact colleagues at other schools on your behalf. Research experience is also really good to separate yourself from the others for medical school too.

11

dinsdale, your kid(s) sound alright! This opinion reflects my general leanings, which is that private schools are usually little if any better than the public schools.

The University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana is very good. While best remembered for being the birthplace of HAL-9000 (and they DO have one of the premier computing centers on the entire planet!), they are also a top-notch old time agricultural school. This means some pretty good biological sciences; genetics and so forth. A friend did his undergrad there, and it’s really just a supergood school overall. Which is also true for…

My undergrad alma mater, the University of Colorado at Boulder. How good? People come from the “other” UCB to play in our library. Hard sciences of all types are very big there (I was chemistry), bio is no exception. ALSO- you mentioned setting her up somewhere so she could get instate tuition. Colorado is unusually nice about subsidizing instate students (then again, California is even more so), even in this day and age of chopped-up education spending.

Wish you guys luck & joy! :slight_smile: