Spaz - I don’t think GARF needs to tell anyone he doesn’t want to drink due to an illness. He appears to really have a dislike for any alcohol. I’d say it may be based in a past bad experience, or possibly his religious beliefs, either way he simply doesn’t want to drink.
My question comes in when I see him saying things like:
Unless you were a hall monitor in grammer school, or incredibly anal, why on earth would you say, “…it’s illegal and it’s just accepted…teachers, students, families etc…etc…”.
Accepted? Try having a drink as a 19 year old in front of a teacher, see how far that gets you in the acceptance realm.
Don’t post a thread about college drinking just to say you think it is wrong. Especially with teachers and College instructors on the boards…You are not in the minority Garf if you want to start a campaign to stop college drinking, good luck, but you may want to learn some form of martial arts before preaching at a college party, especially at a large school like Indiana University.
Since when is IU a dry campus? That’s news to me. I just went to a show down there at Bear’s sometime last fall and there was plenty of drinking going on.
I don’t know about peer pressure. Some of us like to drink, and it ain’t no fun to drink alone. I’m past the college age, but I know some people who don’t drink and they seem to get along just fine. A good friend of ours went on the wagon and everyone has been really supportive of him. I took a drinking break for 6 weeks and no one pressured me. Of course, 21 year olds are different than 30 year olds when it comes to partying.
Unless you act uptight about it, people should be accepting of your decision not to drink. And if they don’t, then I would suggest finding a new crowd to run around with.
Peer pressure to drink starts up in high school because it’s fun, it’s cool, and the people in charge skirted the laws the same way too, when they were growing up. TPing houses is illegal, but I’m just going laugh when I have high school kids and our house gets TPed - been there, done that.
Alchohol isn’t like crack in that it’s a physically addictive drug, and it’s not like driving in that if you make an error there’s a damn good chance someone dies. Sure people die of alchohol poisioning, but that’s not as easy to do as screwing up driving on the highway and taking yourself and others with you.
Drinking is part of the “American College Experience,” same with hooking up with random chicks, peeing on random statues, playing video games into the wee hours of the morning, roadtrips… it’s just become an expected norm.
Legally, sure there’s something wrong with people flaunting the law. But who doesn’t jaywalk? Morally… depends on your morals. Cheating happens a lot at most colleges too, and I’d say that’s “wronger” than underage drinking.
Actually he’s right. A bunch of guys drinking together can be kind of a bonding experience. It’s kind of like, you get to see each other at your stupidest and share in the stupidity. Just as long as things don’t get too out of hand. Plus, when your older you get to relive about all the crazy memories from back in the day (or in my case last week).
Just to rehash the whole peer pressure thing…as a 30 year old, I don’t really experience any since I can basically choose to not expose myself to alchohol. As a 18 yr old college student, it was always around. No one really says “common…you want to be cool, right?” but when everyone else is partying and you are drinking soda, it’s easy to feel left out. Doesn’t mean you have to walk around drinking beer out of a 5 gallon gas can though (boy…did I learn my lesson on that one :smack: )
Growing up in a French household, I think I had my first taste of alcohol at age 3 (I swiped the champagne off the table when everyone was out of the room). It was very common, especially on weekends, to have a small glass of wine with dinner, and I joined in this from a fairly young age. Aside from the fact that he didn’t consider moderate drinking to be that big an issue, my father also felt that by raising me to view drinking as a mundane, everyday thing I wouldn’t feel the need to go nuts when I was on my own. For the most part, I think it worked. And FTR, both my parents were teachers.
There were a couple of times in high school that I got drunk, just because I’d never done it before. In college, I drank at parties, but I only drank to the point of puking once (finals had just ended, and my roommate and I looked at each other and said “that was fucking hell. Let’s drink until we can’t remember any of it.” I don’t think we drank again for a few months). It helped that my friends were more into quality than quantity: we’d buy good beer and liquor, learn how to mix some good drinks, and then enjoy them as an occasional thing rather than buying cheap kegs for the purpose of getting wasted. If I had $10 in my pocket, I take a sixpack of Guiness over a case of Lionshead.
That’s cool. But still, be careful about taking in alcohol without any kind of situation (social interaction, whatever) that can test exactly how it’s affecting you. Drinking while watching TV is just watching TV, for example. My main warning is that you might find yourself in a situation where it creeps up on you and you don’t realize how far gone you are until you’re beyond where you wanted to go.
I don’t “really have a dislike for any alcohol.” As I’ve repetedly said, it’s just another beverage choice once you reach the legal age to drink it. I plan to, in fact. I have NO problem with alcohol.
And by accepted, I don’t mean that profs and students are getting plowed together in Tuesday morning lecture. I meant that it’s just assumed, by everyone, other students, professors, some people’s families, that in college, you drink, and that’s just the way it is and there’s nothing wrong with that at all, and that’s the way it should be.
I didn’t post the thread just to say that I think college drinking is wrong. I posted it to find out why everyone thinks it’s so accepted and encouraged, even though it’s against the law.
I’m not going to start a campaign AGAINST college drinking, because I know that would fail miserably. Heck, in the last student government election, a couple of the parties ran on the platform that they were going to change the rule making it a dry campus.
Indygrrl, of course we have bars. Lots of 'em. Drinking and possession of alcohol ON CAMPUS (you were across the street from campus at Bear’s, for example…) is verboten. Technically it’s not allowed at most of the frat houses either, since most of them are on campus. It’s not enforced much, but if a frat party gets busted as happens occasionally, it’s pretty big news.
Ok so you don’t want to break the law. Thats a good thing. Did you know what to expect when you got to college, before you got there? Did you know College and Drinking can be synonymous with each other - though don’t have to be? I read all of your post’s, and I suppose it is just right now that I am realizing you want more of a philosophical discussion, on why college drinking is endorsed, accepted, and generally not frowned upon.
I frown upon it when it negatively affects my students. I frown upon it when an innocent person is killed from someone drunk behind the wheel. But in the relative safety of a dorm room, no big deal in my book.
I “knew” that there was drinking at college, but not how much. I hadn’t really been around it all that much before I got here. I knew they didn’t HAVE to be synonomous.
And you’re right on the philosophical thing. It’s not generally frowned upon, like you said. You think the typical college kid’s life is enhanced by alcohol, in the way that college kids use alcohol?
I think the risks far outweigh the benefits, myself.
At my school (Roger Williams University), it really IS accepted. I know a few students who regularly see a professor at the same bars they frequent - and they’re underage. One of my professors invited my political science class to a campaign party, and made a point of mentioning that there would be very cheap beer, with no ID-checking. This is a 100-level class, with a very large number of freshman and sophomores.
And of course, students who’re friends with professors will frequently talk about their exploits while under the influence - I’ve done it myself. In fact, another professors delayed the due date for a project specifically because it was going to be due right after Spring Weekend, and everyone was going to be drunk for most of that weekend - and he said as much.
One other point - anyone else on this board in Rhode Island? Ever gone the Chad’s, the karaoke bar in Providence? I’ve gone drinking there when relatives of the governor and the speaker of the state house of representatives were there are as well - some of my friends at least look 21, but I assure you I do not. No reaction. And I know other people under 21 who’ve drunk in Providence clubs with off-duty cops, with no problem.
I realize all these “I know people” statements sound kinda weak, but I don’t actually drink very often myself, so my best stories come from other people - and these are people I know well, I feel comfortable vouching for their accuracy.
My point is- underage drinking is absolutely accepted, at least at my college (including profs) and in Providence. Can’t speak for other places.
Yeah, drinking with professors is more than accepted at my school (RPI), it’s practically encouraged. Faculty get invited to end of year parties at the frats, they come to hockey games a little tipsy, they go to the same bars; in short, seeing a professor while you’re getting trashed (and underaged) isn’t anything strange at all.
That’s a bold statement, coming from one who has never had a drink in his life.
As for the Op, drinking in college is accepted because it is, to put it mildly, prevalent. Everyone does it, and the university still hasn’t ground to a standstill. Why does everyone do it? They do it because it’s fun (and not because they ‘enjoy the taste,’ incidentally . . . my sig line not withstanding). They believe, not unreasonably, that strict adherance to the law and/or campus rules is not (ethically) required of them (do you ever jaywalk?).
In my experiance with college (and this may change drastically in my last year of it, but I doubt it). There hasn’t been much pressure or expectation. There has been a lot of acceptance, which may be what youa re seeing and wondering at.
Its not that professors don’t know that underage drinking is illegal. They also know that jaywalking is illegal. As long as both the underage drinkers and the jaywalkers are keeping reasonably safe and its not affecting the education, it’s not a big deal. Yeah, not everyone on a college campus jaywalks. But no one is going to make a stink about who does and who doesn’t, and some of the goofier jaywalkers will try to jolly along the kiddos who are straightedge about it. Again, as long as no one is being shoved in front of moving vehicles, none of the authorities are going to bother with it.
In the grand scheme of self discovery and education, jaywalking and moderate alcohol consumption are accepted.
Personally, I’m not much of a drinker. I did start drinking underage, but at the same rate and similar responcibility level that I maintain now. (1-2 drinks every 4-6 months.) Like others here, I suggest not drinking for the first time alone, but in the presence of people who know what they are doing. Its not iced tea, its a chemical substance that in large amount is a pretty decent toxin. It has much more serious effects than a caffiene high, that are less predictable to you with your lack of experiance. I realise you just want to experiment and see if you like the beverage, like you would a new flavor of pop or coffee, but I seriously suggest that you take into consideration the fact that its not just a flavor, but also a drug, and treat it accordingly.
I, personally, have no tolerance and little taste for alcohol. So its been an experimental process to figure out what I like and how much I can handle. I would not want to do that process alone, and have appreciated being aorund people I can trust to take care of me when I know I am impaired.
Irish person here, we’re more laid-back about the drinking in this country, I suppose.
Legal age 18, but most people start much younger, maybe 14 or 15. It’s not really such a big deal once you hit college, since everyone has their preferences all sorted, and peer pressure is not so much of a factor. Almost everyone here drinks, but having a few years experience (and not much cash) means that most of us are past the puking and passing out stage, and more into the making-a-pint-last-an-hour, or having a few glasses of wine with the girls stage.
I know a few people who don’t drink (medications, Pioneers, Muslims, personal preference, pregnancy, designated drivers, AA etc) and basically, as long as they’re polite and easy-going if other people drink, there isn’t a problem.
It’s the militant teetotallers (band name!) that most people find objectionable.
Just say “I don’t drink for personal reasons” and leave it at that.
If you get pressured, tell them to mind their own business, or that you’ve taken some antibiotics/painkillers and don’t want to get sick, or that you have an early start the next day or something.
I don’t think so. I’ve read about the risks and “benefits” of drinking. I’ve talked to people who drink about why and people who don’t drink (who are of age to) about why. My mom doesn’t drink at all, while my dad has a beer every day. It’s not like I’m talking about something which I know absolutely nothing about.
I recognize the benefits of alcohol (it makes you feel good for a while). I also recognize the downsides (it lowers your inhibitions, if you drink too much you can get sick or die, it costs more than regular beverages, etc.)
I think you can make an informed opinon about something without having experienced it firsthand. I notice you’ve been posting in the World Series of Poker thread. Ever been in it? Ever been TO it? Still got an opinion though, huh?
And Medea’s Child illustrates my point. Everyone’s talking about how alcohol is not a big deal, and it’s just something else to do and all that, but then I hear,
So which is it, not a big deal or a pretty decent toxin? Just something to do on the weekend, or a drug with more serious and less predictable effects?
Again, I really don’t want this to get into why I decide not to drink before I’m of age (hey, if I went to Canada sometime in the next couple years, I might have a drink, who knows…), I don’t even really want to get into why you (the ‘general you’ there) choose to drink or not to drink.
I just can’t wrap my head around why it’s generally so accepted and encouraged, rather than at least kept hush-hush.
Caffeinated beverages are seen as taboo by some - caffeine is both a potent drug and a toxin. Most people don’t see caffeinated beverages as a problem though - same with alcoholic ones. Regardless of what the law may say, its all in how you use it. Authorities have recognized that drinking isn’t inherently dangerous, and they all broke it when they were youngins too.
Some universities have gone as far as to basically legalize marijuana on campus for a day or two - the University of Michigan has some kind of pot-day where it’s pretty much legal to buy and sell wacky tobacky on campus. Illegal, sure - but high college students are only dangerous if you’re a potato chip.
Sure, but you do realize that there’s quite a large gulf between secondhand knowledge of the effects of alcohol and direct apprehension, yes?
First of all, that’s not really a fair comparison; I didn’t post any opinion about the World Series of Poker in that thread, only certain facts. (I did, however, post opinions about different poker variations, of which I do have direct experience.)
Second, yes, you can have an “informed opinion” about something without firsthand experience, but it’s not as if there are only two categories of opinion, “informed” and “uninformed.” You should have an awful lot of doubt about the supposed pros and cons here since intoxication is not an experience that is conveyed well in words (think of the android, Data, trying to logically understand humor in Star Trek). Likewise, studying the dangers of alcohol is a good idea, but anyone who’s ever had one drink too many probably has a better sense of alcohol’s toxicity than you.
This is all somewhat off-topic, though. If you don’t want to drink, that is, of course, perfectly fine, and no one should be so rude as to try to change your mind. However, it might be hard for you to understand why drinking in college isn’t considered a big deal without ever having had a drink in college.
The two questions have the same answer: both or either, depending on the individual and the circumstances.