College vs. Pro Football

Have the college foot ball programs degenerated into a farm system for pro football?

College football programs seek out the best athletes, give them all kinds of perks, place them in a easy curriculum and do everything possible to maintain ther elegibility to play every game. The better the athlete the better the treatment. Game tickets sell at premium prices, season tickets limited to big financial supporters of the athletic program, etc.

In my opinion pro football has ruined college programs.

Yeah, but why the present perfect? Hasn’t it always been this way?

Actually, anecdotal evidence I’ve heard suggests it was worse in the old days, before the NCAA started clamping down on some of the more egregious offenses involving grades, payments to athletes, etc. One athletic department worker from a “Big Name School” who I met at a fundraising conference told me that “in the old days they could get away with anything.” Big Name Schools likely get away with a lot, but probably not as many, now that the NCAA picks through Division I schools with a fine-tooth comb.

As for the D-I schools being feeder programs to the pros, well, it’s been that way since at least the 1960’s.

Well, how has pro football had any impact on any of the things you mention? From your description, the professionalization of college football has “ruined” college football. The existence of recognized-as-pro teams has no impact.

The NFL was established in 1920, before I was born.

From there till now there have been up and downs but overall a growing dependance on colleges to perforn as ‘farms.’

It is all about money and the fans pay through the nose!

Again, what in the hell has the money in college football to do with the NFL? Are you suggesting that if the NFL didn’t exist, that there would be no money in NCAA football? That’s laughable.

What are you paying for tickets at your college? My parents just got single-game tickets, in good seats fairly close to the field, for a Penn State game for $46. Try getting a single-game ticket for an NFL team other than the Arizona Cardinals for $46, where you’re not sitting in the nosebleed seats. Heck, only ten years ago I had a student’s season ticket at Penn State that cost only $42.

The Big Name Schools make much, much more money from marketing than from ticket prices. My sister used to work for a college-licensing company, and you wouldn’t believe the money they make. If the NFL is “damaging” college football, I can’t see how.

What sort of evidence do you have to support this? Any at all to support your claim of “dependance [sic]”? And how exactly do colleges perform as farms - is each college assigned to a particular NFL team? (Answer: No.) Maybe scouts have heavy contact with a certain number of colleges. (Answer: No.)

So, how’s about some facts to go with those opinions?

Nah. The College Ranks only send a tiny percentage of players to the pros each year and most college footballers realize that this College is it. In a true farm system, a sure fire 1st round pick might stop playing college ball 2/3 thru the season to not endanger his draft status. In fact, the way the NFL game develops Defenses and Offenses that are then dribbled down and copied by the colleges, the “farm” analogy goes the other way easier in some ways.

In many ways they are two different games. College is more about rivalry and, for all but 1-3-4 major programs by October it isn’t about winning a National Championship.

The NFL is about athletes performing at the highest level, the fastest men giving the biggest hits, throwing the ball further, & about the playoffs and the Super bowl.

The can easily co-exist and, I think, are complimentary

What does the NFL have to do with college ticket prices?
When did the NFL NOT use former college players?

You aren’t making any sense, but if you’re from Knoxville that sort of figures. I’ll see ya’ on October 2nd when the Auburn Tigers come to town.

As others have noted, the NFL was established in 1920. College football was already extremely corrupt, long before then.

Long before the NFL existed, it was common for athletes to move from college to college, changing their names at each step of the way, and accepting under-the-table payoffs. Many supposed amateur athletes made money playing for professional and semi-pro sports leagues on the side, under assumed names. Jim Thorpe did this, and lost his Olympic medals, as a result (his main error was in using his own name- if he’d adopted an alias, as guys like the future pro football Hall of Famer Johnny Blood did, nothing would ever have happened to him).

There is no financial connection. NCAA football is a huge business. If the NFL folded tomorrow, NCAA football would only get bigger. Sure, it’s a farce in terms of the very loose definition of “student”. But without the contractural or financial connection as exists between major and minor league baseball, the “farm” label seems inappropriate.

Mr. Carter, that sounds like an invitation to some sort of wager.

Eh, he doesn’t need any help. The Vols haven’t beat a Tiger anything in awhile (LSU, Auburn, Memphis, or CLEMSON!).
As an aside, no, college isn’t a farm for the pros. At least not in football. Basketball maybe, Baseball? I would be hard pressed to find a senior in that sport who is any good, because most leave as underclassmen.
The NFL does lean on cities to build stadiums, and the ticket prices are huge in respect to that upfront cost. If they wanted cheaper prices, they could lower the cap. I would be all for going to pro games if a)players weren’t whiny babies worried about themselves and not the team and b)it didn’t cost so much. That being said, pro football comes alive during the playoffs, which the college ranks so sorely need in I-A.
Season tickets for Clemson last year were ~200, but you have to donate at least $20 to be a member of IPTAY (I Pay Twenty a Year), and the requisite gold, platinum, unobtanium levels that go up from there.

Player development methods among baseball, basketball, and football differ widely.

The primary thing about football is that size is critical. Nearly every player needs to play 4-5 years of college football just to grow up to be big enough to meet the needs of the NFL.

Another problem the NFL would have if it developed a minor league NFL is that no one would watch. You would still have the great college rivalries and you would be stuck with young guys, hoping that they don’t get hurt while playing for $50K a year in a backwater before a crowd of 2000 people.

Baseball’s tradition of minor leagues and farm systems dates back to the 1920s and Branch Rickey. And even before that, many minor league teams had informal arrangements with major league teams. The amateur draft in baseball is set up so that very few fourth year (senior) players are ever picked.

Basketball allows players who are just out of high school to get drafted. But in basketball’s case, this isn’t as much of a disadvantage in the sport. Most of these players are already tall enough for the NBA. But their games aren’t refined enough yet to play in the NBA. This has caused the quality of NBA basketball to decline as well as college basketball as most of the best players never play college ball (such as Kobe Bryant) or leave early (too numerous to mention).

Yer on! Loser pays the winner’s SDMB membership dues next year. :stuck_out_tongue:

Miami University’s Pro-Style offense ruined college football.

Every team should do either the Wishbone or play action!

Done. I’m looking forward to a free year of Dope!

Data point:

I teach at a division 1A university and have a well-earned rep as a tough grader. I’ve twice had players in my class: the first one flunked, and two semesters later I had one of the better prospects on the team in my class (he’ll be starting as a sophomore). I’ve had no pressure (or even contact) whatsoever with anyone in the athletic department. And this at a school where the coach was fired last year, in part for player misconduct.

Yes, there are abuses; there are also kids getting a valuable and expensive education they otherwise wouldn’t.

Actually, I think one of the beauties of the college game is the variation in play that you see around the country. You see some very run-focused offenses, some very wide-open passing games, and some wishbones and power-I formations. I think there is much more variety in game plans in the college game than in the pro game and I’d much rather watch a college game, particularly an inter-regional game, than a pro game.