Colonizing space w/o organised religion.

[Paul_in_Qatar]

It seems several people are advocating such segregation. But I would be pleased if you could explain such reasoning to me.

[Claude_Remains]

@cmyk

Unless there’s some sort of global power in place that segregates against religion in spacefaring, I don’t see how you would be able to eradicate it no matter where people go.

Colonization is so far off as a reality, it’s anyone’s guess as to where the state of the world’s organized religions will be when the time comes to find homes elsewhere. Barring some global atheist crusade against all religions, I don’t see how humanity will ever be rid of religion in any form.

Even if you could hit the red, shiny, candy-like History-Eraser Button, to cleanse the globe of all current and past religions, people will still make shit up to fill the gaps in their knowledge and philosophy, find some disciples, and behold!.. new religions will be born.

New sounds pretty good to me. I hope we find others that can help us to see that the crap were holding on to and killing each other over on Earth is worn out and was just lame to start with.

[Paul_in_Qatar]

So you are aiming for some sort of religious purity in space?

[Claude_Remains]

@Paul_in_Qatar

It seems several people are advocating such segregation. But I would be pleased if you could explain such reasoning to me.

Well I never even hinted that I would like to see segregation. I was thinking of no religion at all. Each planet home to only one faith never crossed my mind. Spiritual freedom is at the core of the Human experience in my opinion, however I feel that two or more people are just that, two or more people. Organized religion scares me.

[Paul_in_Qatar]

So all the religious people over here and all the non-religious people over there? How as that freedom? Your idea scares me.

[Claude_Remains]

I knew I was in trouble as I hit submit. I guess I would honestly have to say that I just just dont understand being a fanatic of worshiping the unknown. I’m gonna die and I dont give a shit what happens after that, how could I? both athiests and god nuts drive me batty. It’s a non issue for me and I wish I could go to mars with other folks who don’t give a shit about it.

[Paul_in_Qatar]

But certainly the diversity of people and ideas is what makes life fun. Having only people like ourselves around would be no fun at all.

[Kobal2]

@Frank

It’s more likely that religion will be benefitted by space colonization. If the Vatican, for instance, builds a new space station or is the first to arrive at a new planet, they will obviously only transport Catholics. And so on and so forth.

I think the Vatican’s space program is limited to singing “Nearer, my God, to thee”, these days.

[Pullet]

@Tom_Tildrum

I also think that in one of the later Dune novels, set several thousand years in the future, we encounter a community of interstellar Jews, who fled persecution on Earth.

Please tell me “Jews in Space” from History of the World: Part 1 predates this novel. I can’t take losing faith in Mel Brooks, too.

[Paul_in_Qatar]

Using the “John Carter” method of space travel then?

[Der_Trihs]

@cmyk

Colonization is so far off as a reality, it’s anyone’s guess as to where the state of the world’s organized religions will be when the time comes to find homes elsewhere. Barring some global atheist crusade against all religions, I don’t see how humanity will ever be rid of religion in any form.

Colonization by more rational people ( genetically engineered to be so, if necessary ), followed by the self-annihilation of the believers on Earth comes to mind. I don’t think humanity can survive being insane enough to be religious indefinitely; religion is a self indulgence that in the long run I think we will either give up on, die from, or be permanently enslaved by in some mind control based theocratic dystopia.

@Paul_in_Qatar

But certainly the diversity of people and ideas is what makes life fun. Having only people like ourselves around would be no fun at all.

You are confusing being different, and being dangerously irrational. Religion falls into the latter category. Religion doesn’t make life “fun”, except for the thugs of the world; it spreads chaos and death, oppression and destruction and misery. I would prefer to live in a society without religion for the same reason I’d prefer to live in one without racism or sexism; all three are irrational and malignant.

[Claude_Remains]

Dude, you should write books for children. Serious. Not one word of bullshit in that post.

[aruvqan]

@Tom_Tildrum

Or the Hyperion novels, where the Church has settled an entire planet. There’s also a Jewish world, a Sunni world, and a Shiite world. I guess the Lutherans didn’t make the cut.

They were too busy making casseroles to get on the rocket:confused:

@Locrian

Well, if we ever even get to having Moon colonies where there is no atmosphere, no gravity, no air and no food, the highest and most dedicated religion better have a dogma of worshipping science and scientists sans sky daddies. At least there’s not enough water to start a flood.

Seriously, there should be a test for people who want to go into space. The test should include agriculture, chemistry, astronomy and the ever hated evolution. You don’t get an A, you don’t go, despite your prayers.

The issue is if you get idiots onboard like the jackasses who wanted to change PI, or want to organize everything along religious lines [read about stuff like the oneida colony for cracked religious nuts]

@Paul_in_Qatar

Why would you want to make everyone more the same? Who would want to live in a world only with blue-eyed vegetarians?

Some of the Aryan Nation and KKK types would love to take off to a planet that was restricted to whites only. And I am sure that some black fundie types would love an all black planet, and fundie muslims would like an all muslim planet.

Read the Weber’s Honor Harrington series [second through um, 5th books IIRC] for what happens when a fundie christian group ends up on a really nasty planet and has a schism. Or the Elizabeth Moon Herris Serrano series for the New Texas Rangers and their habit of kidnapping and force breeding nonTexas women …

[Paul_in_Qatar]

@Der_Trihs

You are confusing being different, and being dangerously irrational. Religion falls into the latter category. Religion doesn’t make life “fun”, except for the thugs of the world; it spreads chaos and death, oppression and destruction and misery. I would prefer to live in a society without religion for the same reason I’d prefer to live in one without racism or sexism; all three are irrational and malignant.

Gosh the last people who tried to kill off religion (and religious groups) were who again? I forget. Sharp dressers?

Are you saying each and every person who has religious faith is dangerously irrational? Such a contention does not meet the challenge simple day-to-day observation requires.

[Johnny_Angel]

How other religions would react to a secular space, I don’t know. But I’m fairly certain how evangelical Christians would react: they would make it their mission to get (their version of) God onto that colony.

[Nava]

@Paul_in_Qatar

What sort of thinking is this? Religion might be genetically engineered out of existence? That religions and people can or ought to be segregated? Racial, political and religious purity with everyone with a lisp and pet name for God having their own world?

Who would want to live in a world, in a universe, where everyone can find a find home of people just like them? New Socialist Men on Planet X, Lesbians on Planet Y and Mormons on Planet Z? This is a horror, not a utopia.

And who says it’s an utopia? That thing doesn’t even try to be original, it’s a “resetting” of a Yates poem, from “far away countries” to “far away planets.” Quite indigestible, too…

Dystopias are as frequent in science fiction as utopias.

[Khendrask]

@SteveG1

Maybe we can talk the idiots into boarding the ships, so they ummmm, like, go away?

You mean like the Golgafrincham?

I am of the opinion that even if there were a magical method of instantaneously eliminating all religions, within five minutes of using it, there would be new religions forming, whether here, or on some far distant planet.

Religions serve (admittedly stupid) purposes. They act to form communities of inclusion (and therefore exclusion), which will always be in the human psyche as it’s better to be “US” then “Them…”. Secondly, they are also based in great part on removing personal responsibility, and who wants to actually be responsible for their own life? (IMHO, of course).

One interesting way that space-religion was handled was in Orsen Scott Cards series following “Ender’s Game”… “Speaker for the Dead”, “Xenocide”, and “Children of the Mind”. There, semi-autonomous planetary colonies were formed with a license for a particular charter religion, and allowed to exist under the dictates of their beliefs, AS LONG as they did not discriminate against others. Religious persecution, even mildly, could result in the revocation of the colony license, and even splitting up the colony and shipping the folk to other worlds.

[Der_Trihs]

@Paul_in_Qatar

Gosh the last people who tried to kill off religion (and religious groups) were who again? I forget. Sharp dressers?

And here we go again. Someone doesn’t like religion? He must be a mass murdering Communist!!

@Paul_in_Qatar

Are you saying each and every person who has religious faith is dangerously irrational? Such a contention does not meet the challenge simple day-to-day observation requires.

Yes, I do feel that way, and yes it fits “simple day-to-day observation”. Everywhere I turn I see religion inflicting evil and misery. Humanity is a species crippled by religion.

[wayward]

@cmyk

Even if you could hit the red, shiny, candy-like History-Eraser Button, to cleanse the globe of all current and past religions, people will still make shit up to fill the gaps in their knowledge and philosophy, find some disciples, and behold!.. new religions will be born.

I agree with this. In fact I think it’s likely that the instincts that drive some people to explore space and investigate the universe through science, are the very same that cause others to become religious (and of course the two are by no means mutually exclusive). I am not religious at all myself, but I can’t help think thinking that any creature inherently incapable of religion would be something less than human. IMHO, of course.

[BrainGlutton]

I expect when the off-Earth human population reaches a certain critical mass, it will start inventing new religions. Americans, after all, invented several, post-independence, going back to the Mormons. And the conditions and environment and daily life of space, so different from all precedent in human experience, might well seem to demand new forms of spirituality.