Color Blind Society="Pretend we're all White"

Great Debates
21

We just have to put chips on peoples head and all dissent will be over… mind control them into accepting the “Right Views” ™ and society will be peaceful.

Assimilation means adopting someone elses culture, values and outview. The Nazis thought like that too… Dangerous suggestion.

I do agree in one thing Sussana says… that sometimes… only sometimes… color gets the bad rap (pun intended) for what basically are not racial differences … but economic or cultural differences that get labeled on black/hispanics/whatever. True enough. Still sometimes all it takes is the color difference for people to shun someone. Got two more or less equally qualified candidates, who do you contract… black or white ?

22

Good point.

Most of what some people think of as “anti-semitism”, has nothing to do with whether or not a person is actually related to Abraham, or David, or Jesus.

It has to do with the different voting patterns(and conflicting values/attitudes/foreign policies) of the majority of liberal jewish americans.

But you are misinterpreting me.

I dont care if jews, or whites, or blacks or arabs change or not change, assimilate or not assimilate into the main culture.

Its just that if any “group”, no matter how you classify them, freely wants to be “different” and separate from the other groups and from the majority culture, then they should not expect to be percieved as being the same - because they arent, and they dont want to be the same.

23

Oops. Tim Wise on Race and Crime:

http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/ZMag/articles/march02wise.htm

24

That doesn’t make any sense. Sure, some people combine different cultures, but I don’t see how you can decide what’s “best” about a culture. That’s entirely up to the people who are “assimilating.” Some people might prefer to keep their culture exactly as it was, while others might decide to fully Americanize themselves. You can’t reasonably claim that one culture is better than another, or that some parts of a culture are better than the others.

25

For you to sit there and say there is “little racism” in this country simply blows my mind, Susanann.

This has got to be the biggest load of crap I’ve read all week. WTF? When black people were being strung up by their necks, it wasn’t because of their stances on gun control. When black home buyers get steered away from white neighborhoods, it’s not because their pro-labor. When a Doper gets called a “nigger” at a bus stop, it’s not because they listen to hip hop. When a Sikh gas station attendent alluded to the fact that I was a “nigger”, it wasn’t because I’m “liberal”. There are instances of fear-based racism. Not beefs over politics.

Black people have always been conservative. It’s a conservatism that’s more nuanced than, say, the brand of conservatism we’re used to seeing on Fox News. Unfortunately, many people don’t know this because they don’t know any black people. It’s the ignorance of one another that keeps us from being united. Not the political stuff.

by Rashak Mani

Not really. The same problems exist as they did before 9/11. It’s just that another group has been brought into the spotlight. People who thought they were “white” before now realize that they aren’t. And people who once scoffed at being profiled have now found themselves suspecting others based on appearance. But nothing really has changed.

26

Hmmm, well, I would bet money that if you were a very liberal democrat who moved into a new area, you would more likely be “accepted” in Sacamento City, than in Taylor, Nebraska, regardless of what your skin color was.

Im thinking that it will be easier for you to get a job, to have good helpful neighbors, to get invited to social parties, to date, in Sacamento City than in Taylor Nebraska.

How is my guess?

On the other hand, if you, as an outspoken liberal democrat, attack, publically speak out against, and then vote to outlaw/prohibit everything that the people of Taylor Nebraska believe in, and try to raise their taxes every chance you get, then I do not expect those people to want to be your friend, to live next door to you, nor for them to vote for you to represent them.

27

I think you’re on to something because you realize that the cultural component is important. I think there are a number of people on the bubble that simply lack a capacity to see value in people outside of their culture.

However, I still think it can just come down to skin color.

For example, my friends parents seemed like nice people. They were not white supremacists, they didn’t use the n-word, they had no problem rooting for black athletes, listening to music that black people made, or her daughter having friends of color. But when my friend moved in with a black man who some would call a “white” black man ( with a “white” speech pattern, musical tastes,etc…) she was very abruptly and painfully disowned explicitly because he was black.

And I suppose they just “happen” to not like these attitudes?

Love as in “like to hear them speak” or as in “wouldn’t mind if they married our daughter”?

That’s partly because black people are “safe” when they’re on stage. Also the fact that the audience is mostly white can be a factor.

ahh… it must be nice to live your world.

Let’s try to get to the root of this. Do you suppose that there is something about African American cultural heritage that would make them tend to be liberal?

That’s why I’d say we shouldn’t have color blind society (at least not yet).
Do you really believe white people consider black people as simply “liberal rap music listeners”?

Perhaps that’s why many cities in the US still have color coded neighborhoods. Whites are afraid to live with people who vote democrat. And we all know that people who listen to rap music tend to earn less money so they live in the poorer part of town. :rolleyes:

28

Most people don’t wear their politics on their sleeves. How is an employer going to know you’re a liberal democrat unless you tell them? How is your neighbor going to know unless you wave a I’M A PROUD LIBERAL DEMOCRAT banner on your front porch?

How about if you were, I dunno, like 99% of people and was quiet and reserved with your politics? Would a liberal Democrat who wasn’t fanatical still have friends in Taylor, Nebraska?

How about if you’re a black person and you move into Taylor, Nebraska? Will you have to be a fanatical conservative Republican for people to like you? Or could you get away with being a moderate independent who doesn’t care one way another about politics?

29

I find this really hard too believe and rather naive. Sure things have changed dramatically. This thread for example, shows that there are still prejudices based on color (Asian female is submissive??!!). Whether it is in the form of racism or not, that’s debatable; we are not color blind. First thing to deal with the issue is to recognize that color still does play a part in our daily lives. Whether consciously or not, unfortunately, some do judge based on color.

30

by Susanna:

Your premise is greatly flawed. Whites don’t even share the same attitudes towards those things. There is a giant amount of variation within just that one group and it transcends region, religion, and even class, even in the face of correlation sometimes. You have liberal-leaning mid-western working class whites that like country music to the exclusion of all others. You have conservative Yankee upper-tax-bracket whites who can rap like Missy Elliot in the shower. You have Michael Moore-like whites and you have Rumsfieldian whites. How you can then motar and pestle all of these whites into one big homogenate and say that if only blacks would act like this…that baffles me.

Wishful thinking. Tell me, what do you think all of these whites who are in love with Clarence Thomas would do if their kids brought home a Clarence Thomas-type boyfriend? Can you honestly say that color would be a non-issue?

31

I agree, last time I checked, white was a color. There is really a simple way to understand how you feel (speaking to Americans here). Do you see America as a nation of diverse people/cultures or as a melting pot?

32

The simple solution to this problem is to have sex with everyone you see until we are all the same color =)

33

  1. Nope.

  2. Yep.

As far as the other poster saying that not all white people are conservative, you just again prove my point. The liberal white lefties who want gun control and other liberal programs have no problems(no racism) with liberal democrat blacks who want same, in fact, people like Teddy Kennedy, Barbara Boxer, Diane Fienstien, Mondale, Clinton, depend on them, and welcome them with open arms.

Nobody is seeing that the ultra liberal white democrats have a strong and deep alliance with the black 90% liberal democrats, they share the same goals, they want the same type of society, the same kinds of laws, the same levels of taxes, the same things outlawed, and they just cant seem to understand why conservatives dont want any liberals of any kind next door to them.

FYI, I am not naive.

I am old enough to have seen racism many years ago. I can remember when people did not like people with different colors of skin, but I dont know anybody who is this way now.

Racism in america is history!

It is so out of date, and so irrelevent you might as well be talking about slavery, sailing ships, whether the earth is flat or round, how good King George was, or whether the Sun god is more powerful than the moon god.

The issues are too important today for any amerian to be racist.

The U.S. laws have changed so there is no legal discrimination anywhere in the United States, and other values such as our own rights, the way we want to raise our own children, and the amount of taxes that we now pay, are too important for the amount of pigment anyone else might have to be of any importance in deciding who we like and who we dont like.

The efforts of americans today are not in stopping some people/races from drinking out of the same water fountain, the efforts are to try to get clean water for everyone in the United States. Whites dont try to stop black people from getting guns, they now try to get them to join the NRA and help keep the right to bear arms for everyone, we dont try to stop black people from getting into schools, we want to have better schools that cost less and teach american values, we dont want to stop blacks from getting jobs, we want to try to keep the factory in america instead of moving to china, we dont try to keep blacks off of our sports teams, we want the best players we can get, we dont want blacks to be unemployed and on welfare, we want them to have good high paying jobs to share the taxes so ours can be lowered, we dont want minorities in prison, it now costs over $20,000 a year to keep someone in prison, we are not interested in keeping blacks out of the military, we are more interested in not letting our own sons die in a senseless war, etc. etc.

34

Just out of curiousity, Susanann, are you white?

35

A band called the Stone Cold Boners has a song called “Lesson One.” The song lists names of jazz musicians and compares the notoriety/popularity of black artists vs. white artists. For example, the average person has heard of Buddy Rich but hardly anybody knows who Baby Dodds is. The point is that white artists imitate black artists and the white artists end up more famous or popular despite the fact that the black artists are usually better. Another example is Elvis Presley, who was created when someone had the bright idea of creating a white man who could sing like a black man. When you look at black musicians, athletes, slang, popular culture, etc., everything that is cool in our culture comes from black culture. Everything good in popular music originated in black culture and was coopted by white culture, jazz, blues, rocknroll, rap, etc. It is comical to see white kids don the obligatory ski cap and imitate the angry body language of black rap artists. On TV shows or movies, if they want to show that a white guy is cool, they pair him up with a black guy. If a white guy can hand with a black guy, he must be cool.

So my point is that white culture has this weird relationship with black culture. We imitate it, but that imitation is in a state of denial. So a colorblind society may not be everyone pretending to be white, but whites pretending to be black in the own weird twisted way.

36

You remember people who hated based on skin color, but you don’t think these people exist anymore. Was there some kind of mass extinction of overt racists during your lifetime? How naive it is to think something as major as racism could be wiped out in a single generation, let alone in your generation!

You’re right, actually. Your posts demonstrate something worse than naivety.

You have no idea how these people truly feel about black people. They may love them in front of the camera but talk shit about them behind their backs. They may have a million black friends yet still be weary of strange blacks they meet on the street.

Or on the other hand, they could be like Former President Johnson, a good ole boy if there ever was one. A known racist, Former Johnson did more for black people–and poor people–than any other president before his time. My mother, a proud leftist radical, believes he was the best president this country has ever known. I’m sure she would elect him again if she could. I guess this demonstrates part of your point: politics matter. But Johnson wasn’t no negro-lover, rest assure.

So you’re speaking for the whole white race now? How wonderfully crazy of you.

All I see from your post is how “our” good treatment of black people serves “our” best interest. But anyone with a modicum of intelligence could see how bad treatment of black people could also serve “our” best interests. Remember now, bad treatment of this particular group has been business as usual since way before the country was founded. And you blow my mind again, Susanann. How can you sit here and say that “we” don’t want blacks to be unemployed when Dopers have said as much on this very board? Who are you speaking for?

37

I just don’t like the way the American culture has made other nations emulate its race relations policy.

38

by Susanann

I’ve never been to Taylor, Nebraska. Are you telling me that EVERYONE there is a fanatical conservative? That there are NO moderate Republicans? No moderate Democrats? No independents? Are you telling me that in order for anyone–black or white–to make friends, they have to be a hard-core, outspoken Republican? Or is it just black people who have to be over-the-top?

I’m young. I haven’t traveled very much. But I’m having a hard time believing that I couldn’t make friends in Taylor, Nebraska simply because I believe in gun control. And if this is the case Nebraska is a horrible state that should be floated out into the Pacific Ocean where the sharks and the giant octopusses can get to it.

39

Why would anyone want a black to be unemployed?

40

I’m young. I haven’t traveled very much. But I’m having a hard time believing that I couldn’t make friends in Taylor, Nebraska simply because I believe in gun control. **
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There are a thousand places like that.

Telling someone you want to take his gun away is not the way to make friends in large parts of America. Why do you think they call it “gun country”?

If you speak against the Bill of Rights or Davy Crockett, if you threaten what some people think to be necessary for their own self defense, for their own survival, their heritage, when you threaten their lives and the lives of their children, your toast. Some people dont take that too kindly, nor “friendly”. It is more than just a difference of opinion, and I dont care what color you are.

You would make many more friends if you had contagious leprosy instead.

If you want to make friends when you travel with your self proclaimed anti-gun attitudes, you will make more friends if you fly in to Washington DC or Detroit or East St. Louis or Chicago instead of wondering around in the sandhills of Nebraska.

Anyways, this is just one issue, an example, no need to side track the topic for further discussion on it, or any other issue.

There are many issues/examples that liberal democrats have that they purposely want to separate/alienate themselves from others.

Again, color of skin is totally irrelevent as to whether someone likes you or not.