I believe that the powers-that-be have figured out that illegal immigration is somehow good for our economy. It is useful for them to have a rightless underclass which works for illegal wages. It keeps our food cheap and the agricultural system running. It pumps money in to Mexico and keeps them on good terms with us. Maybe there are other factors involved, I’m not sure.
I think this is evidences by the fact that very few politicians have moved towards closing the borders, working with Mexico to prevent illegal immigration or otherwise stemming the problem where it starts. Instead, they focus on grandiose and largely symbolic plans to make sure that no illegal immigrant gets a cent of US taxpayer money.
This serves to keep the US public at odds with illegal immigrants so they don’t start looking at the real situation, to make it look like they too are concerned with this problem and in part to have their cake and eat it, too- to reap all the benefits of illegal immigration without having to provide anything to the people involved.
This is evidenced by the rather obvious fact that no matter what we deprive illegal immigrants of, they arn’t going to go back to Mexico, where things are most certainly worse. Do you think they can get a decent education and much healthcare in Mexico? Of course not, and if they can’t get that here it’s still not going to change much. The deciding factor is jobs, and as long as the jobs are here, they will come for them.
Ideally, we’d have the reasons for supporting illegal immigration be made clear and public, and provide them- as an apparently essential part of our economy- with some rights and protections. Maybe not as full as a US citizen, but enough to make sure that slave-labor and grossly unfair practices arn’t a policy of our country. I would like to see the lot of all low-skilled workers improved and I would like the situation for all Americans to be vaguely comfortable (decent education, healthcare, etc.)
Maybe a two-tiered “guest worker” scheme is called for, where we bring the situation out in the open and publically regulate it. I’m uncomfortable with having an offical second class, but I guess thats better than a secret and hated second class.
Apples and oranges entirely…comparing war refugees fleeing for their lives from a government bent on exterminating them is totally different than a corrupt government turning a blind eye towards their poor and “exporting” them to other countries in hopes of getting a cash infusion from their migrant workers supporting their families back home; or even letting the whole family leave so there’s one less family burdening their government.
Read my cites. Food can remain cheap without sub-minimum wages or illegal immigrant workers.
Again, read the cites. Mexico has made many demands of the US, and yet has no interest in helping retain their own citizens within their borders, yet they have a stringent border security in their southern boarder to keep central americans out. The Mexican government is corrupt and our politicians from both sides have no real way to address the problem of a corrupt government.
California is not reaping any benefits…they are hemmoraging from the costs of illegal immigration. Usually, when California leads, the rest of the country follows.
You should ask that question to Presidente Fox. Also, ask him why he would want his Mexican constituents be dual citizens when they have no intention of coming back.
Ugh. This plan is just as bad as the others from the right and left. A bi-partisan approach directed at the government of Mexico is needed to help get the Mexican economy to sustain its people. That is how you stop illegal immigration. But it takes co-operation from the Mexican government, and right now, I don’t see it. Half a lifetime ago, I wrote a college paper on the benefits of annexing Mexico to stop illegal immigration…of course this was done tongue-in-cheek so long ago, but damn…It would be a better solution than what’s being proposed by our government(s).
As an employer, I have never hired anyone who is here illegally. I can’t. Reason: my employees have to have Dept. of Justice clearing, fingerprints with SS#, and DMV registration, not to mention 100/300K auto liability. This is a state requirement that my company has to abide with here in California. It can be done with other employers in the state, if the state really wanted to.
Instead, justwannano is upset by competition from foreign workers/the lack of tariffs and quotas. At bottom, complaints against unlicensed, undocumented Mexican plumbers and hardworking, low wage Korean electronics assemblers are about the same thing: competition. Some trades, like agriculture or plumbing, can’t be done somewhere else, due to the nature of the job. Manufacturing can.
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Not just competition but unfair competition.
Lets also mention that US companies are complaining about unfair competition from China because of the difference in standards.
Gee US companies complaining about unfair treatment . Who have thought it.
I would like to note that Yeticus’s cites killed the counterarguments, not my argument.
I’d also like to note that most of the criticism of my OP, especially Polycarp’s uncharacteristically glib dismissal, stems from a false dichotomy, namely, that one must either favor unlimited immigration by all who show up, regardless of how poor, sick or culturally incompetent they are, or else one must hate foreigners and want the country shut off to any immigration at all. The motivation for the false dichotomy is that if one falls in the latter category, one may be subjected to a long list of politically correct, moralistic, holier-than-thou, you-bad-man-you scoldings. I’d also suggest careful study of the differences between settlement, conquest and immigration.
Onec again, I’m not against immigration in principle. I do, however, think the current situation is an indefensible mess. I’m going to pose this question for the third time now: how many Mexican immigrants do you enthusiasts think the United States can handle at one time? Please justify your answer.
True. Which is why this “planning” by the government (which is what H-1B visas are) has created a problem by artifically lowering some wages while creating a small class of slave labor (because the imported workers often have it explained to them that any “problems” will result in their employer voiding the agreement under which their visa were issued).
Aaaargh…the current H-1B annual quota is 65,000. H-1Bs can go to anyone whose job requires at least a bachelor’s degree - teachers, engineers, accountants, physical therapists, biological researchers, pretty much any professional job. (And fashion models, but that’s a separate issue.) 65,000 is not a huge proportion of the U.S. workforce, even if all the H-1Bs went to IT workers. And by law, workers in H-1B status are required to receive the prevailing wage for their occupation, level of expereince/education, and geographic location, or the wage their employer pays similarly qualified workers, whichever is higher.
If employers obey the law, there is no incentive for them to hire a foreign worker in H-1B status over an equally qualified U.S. worker; it will cost them more, because they also have to pay legal fees for the H-1B petition (unless they do them in-house, as my employer does, and then they still have to pay my salary), as well as $1685 in government filing fees (a figure which will rise by $500 in anti-fraud fees on March 8th). SOme employers don’t obey the law, but that’s an enforcement issue and is hardly the H-1B worker’s fault.
(Disclosure: preparing H-1B petitions is a large part of my job. See? An American job created by H-1B workers!)
And I have never criiticized a foreign worker for trying to get ahead by coming to the U.S.
However, I know four major companies in the Cleveland area who have a policy of hiring only H-1B workers for IT positions below manager. I know several dozen COBOL, Cognos, C++, and C home-grown programmers who are looking for work, and I know of nearly as many imported workers in Cleveland who have no special skills beyond COBOL, C, C++, or Cognos (e.g., they are not extraordinary gurus of Sybase/Powerbuilder combined with Oracle and network administration). Yeah, the companies have to pay prevailing wage (at least on paper), but they are certainly going out of their way to ignore qualified local help in order to import equivalent help. That means that the prevailing wage drops (glutted market) so they can then pay their imported help less.
(This is not to say that IT salaries have never been inflated at one time or another–they have–but there is additional pressure being placed on the industry right now, and it is artificially enhanced by government interference (or collusion with business).)
These companies are the same ones who outsource YOUR job to that country (or any other) all the while crying about unfair competition. They cash in on the lower standards and lower wages, and then have the balls to claim they are the victims. I have to call Bullshit on them.
Kinda off topic but one Quad cities TV news station has a continuing special following Maytag who recently moved their plant from Galesburg Ill to Renosa Mexico.
Those Mexicans take home pay is just over $!.00 per hour.
BTW Renosa is just over the Mexican border from Mc Allen Texas. Guess who recruited Maytag for Renosa. A company from Mc Allen. It seems that Mc Allen also benefits from the move.
Your question is not being answered because it is horribly loaded. If you will look at the pamphlet quoted in the OP, it is not encouraging illegal immigrants to come to Colorado. It’s mostly informing illegal immigrants who are here, what their rights are, and what they should do if they are abused.
You are a victim of the dichotomy you accused others of being a victim of. Thinking that illegal immigrants should be able to go to the police if they are mugged, beaten up, or a victem of labor law violations is not claiming that we need or want more immigrants.
That would seem to support my idea, that our own people (companies) are doing it to us. Very convenient for them, being just across the boarder. Just close enough to still be “local”, just far enough to outsource everybody.
This thread had long since veered into a general discussion of illegal immigration when I first posed my question. I’ll put another check in the column, “Refuses to answer question.”
I don’t know, but it will sure make me want to buy someone else’s washing machines from now on. I’m sure they don’t care, but at least I can then say I’m not “rewarding” them.
I’m not sure what classification you can give the Mexican government and their social/financial elite, but I do know that they don’t care for their poor and would rather see them disappear any way possible so they don’t have to acknowledge that there is a huge problem, while securing their southern boarder so they don’t have any poor people from Central America replacing them.
This seems very plausible, if not underestimated. Here is a jumping off point on California’s prison population. It seems that approximately 1 of 3 (14,336 of 42,094) Mexican prison inmates are illegal aliens, although I have yet to see the state website differentiate the two (legal and illegals).
On a radio station, I have heard (but would want to verify) that in the 4th quarter of 2004, that income from abroad (i.e. - working immigrants both legal and illegal) being sent back to their families in Mexico has surpassed the income from tourism. Can anyone verify?