[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
And where, exactly, did he do that?
[/QUOTE]
I am not sure of the precise locations, but I can refer you to my wife’s pirate blog if you want to see pirate news. His ship was part of the Atlantic fleet.
[QUOTE=mswas]
There are lots of ships and planes today. Is this going somewhere?
[/QUOTE]
You were comparing one ship to many planes. False comparison.
[QUOTE=mswas]
That’s not true at all.
[/QUOTE]
Prove it.
[QUOTE=mswas]
You think that literacy is a requirement to watch Television?
[/QUOTE]
Strawman - No, I think not being a poor subsistence farmer is a requirement for having the money to own and power a television.
[QUOTE=mswas]
America uses a disproportionate amount of resources, but it also props up the world economy.
[/QUOTE]
I’d doubt whether you could get numbers that say it contributes as much as it uses. If it did, it wouldn’t consume disproportionately.
[QUOTE=mswas]
Sticking to ideology is all well and good if you want to be a bilious curmudgeon but it’s not rational policy. You want to reduce it to selfishness but be my guest.
[/QUOTE]
In what way is it not rational to say “these are my principles, and this is how they inform my policy”, unless your only criterion of rationality is cost/benefit analysis. Which is not the only interpretation of rationality.
[QUOTE=mswas]
The existance of a wealthy America has been good for the world as a whole.
[/QUOTE]
History will be the judge of that. Right now, it’s not looking so rosy - especially if you live on the coasts.
[QUOTE=mswas]
A good example is that we keep the level of piracy down so that global trade is possible.
[/QUOTE]
Piracy? Are you joking? This is your justification for using 6 times as much as you should? That’s it’s a protection racket you’re running?
[QUOTE=mswas]
Part of the point of American foreign policy that is a point of contention constantly, domestically and abroad is the policy of trying to stabilize the rest of the world economy for trade in order to bring up the standard of living of the rest of the world so they don’t need to move here.
[/QUOTE]
And that isn’t selfish how?
The Roman Empire was very effective at cleansing the Mediterranean of pirates. That does not mean it was not a cruel, greedy and exploitative state, nor that the subject peoples owed it any debt of gratitude.
[QUOTE=MrDibble]
You were comparing one ship to many planes. False comparison.
[/quote]
No, I was comparing one ship to multiple flights. If a steamship can carry 1000 passengers in steerage and a 747 can carry 400, the 747 can transport many more times the number of people that the steamship can carry in the same amount of time.
People have television in the most backwater places. We aren’t talking about subsistence farmers, but the urban poor.
Your statement is meaningless. We are talking about the overall structure of the world economy and not just the amount of material resources used. Besides, it is clear that neither of us is qualified to have a real discussion of this topic.
One can make sacrifices for ideological principles, but nations generally don’t make them to the point of martyrdom. The US is as Utilitarian as it is Egalitarian. Yes, there are conflicts involved, but that’s what happens with a grand polity such as the US.
I don’t even know what you mean by this. I live in New York, on the coast and have watched it get wealthier and wealthier with no signs of slowing since I moved here in 97.
It is a protection racket, precisely, that’s what Empires are. There has never been a time in history that there wasn’t a global Empire, at least not for thousands of years. Two hundred years ago, it was the Ottomans and the British. Before that it was was the Ottomans, British, Spanish and French. Before that the Byzantines and various Middle-Eastern Dynasties. Before that Rome and Persia. The Raison D’Etre of Empire is the protection of global trade. What’s controversial about this?
If you want to continue with the facile, “Justify your existence”, line of reasoning. I’ll get bored. Arguing against leftist tropes is of limited fascination.
[QUOTE=mswas]
I am not sure of the precise locations, but I can refer you to my wife’s pirate blog if you want to see pirate news. His ship was part of the Atlantic fleet.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I will recuse myself from this discussion to sit in astonished wonder that there are pirate blogs. Also, that way I don’t have to worry about confirming my dreadful suspicion that she blogs about pirates, rather than being a pirate who blogs.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Actually, I will recuse myself from this discussion to sit in astonished wonder that there are pirate blogs. Also, that way I don’t have to worry about confirming my dreadful suspicion that she blogs about pirates, rather than being a pirate who blogs.
[/QUOTE]
There are blogs about everything dude. It’s ok though. If you don’t want to read about the fate of the ‘La Ponant’, I won’t force you. 
[QUOTE=mswas]
There are blogs about everything dude. It’s ok though. If you don’t want to read about the fate of the ‘La Ponant’, I won’t force you.
[/QUOTE]
If it doesn’t involve cutlasses, frilly shirts, buried treasure, wenches, and rum, than my interest level might only be perceivable using an electron microscope.
[QUOTE=mswas]
No, I was comparing one ship to multiple flights. If a steamship can carry 1000 passengers in steerage and a 747 can carry 400, the 747 can transport many more times the number of people that the steamship can carry in the same amount of time.
[/QUOTE]
More like up 2000 - so that’s 5 flights for your 747. Suddenly we’re in the same order of magnitude here (unless your 747’s running 24/7, which the FAA might take issue with)
[QUOTE=mswas]
People have television in the most backwater places. We aren’t talking about subsistence farmers, but the urban poor.
[/QUOTE]
The urban poor are only “peasants” if you use it in the pejorative sense. You’re the one who implied it was purely descriptive. Not that I believed you.
[QUOTE=mswas]
Your statement is meaningless. We are talking about the overall structure of the world economy and not just the amount of material resources used. Besides, it is clear that neither of us is qualified to have a real discussion of this topic.
[/QUOTE]
You might not be - I’ve got cites for the ~30% resource use figure if you want them. The US would have to produce and export at least that much in value to compensate. It doesn’t.
[QUOTE=mswas]
One can make sacrifices for ideological principles, but nations generally don’t make them to the point of martyrdom. The US is as Utilitarian as it is Egalitarian. Yes, there are conflicts involved, but that’s what happens with a grand polity such as the US.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve just argued that it isn’t Egalitarian at all. It might once have wanted to be, but that’s past. Long past.
[QUOTE=mswas]
I don’t even know what you mean by this. I live in New York, on the coast and have watched it get wealthier and wealthier with no signs of slowing since I moved here in 97.
[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t referring to the economy. I was referring to the long-term global consequences of an American resource consumption level
[QUOTE=mswas]
It is a protection racket, precisely, that’s what Empires are. […]The Raison D’Etre of Empire is the protection of global trade. What’s controversial about this?
[/QUOTE]
Ummm, protection rackets aren’t very nice? This is hardly leftist rhetoric. But I’m glad you’re OK with Empire. Nice to meet a cheerful, honest exploiter.
[QUOTE=mswas]
There are blogs about everything dude. It’s ok though. If you don’t want to read about the fate of the ‘La Ponant’, I won’t force you.
[/QUOTE]
I would totally love to see this blog.
[QUOTE=Miller]
I would totally love to see this blog.
[/QUOTE]
You know in my little town you hear the same fucking thing at the Co-Op or the seed store or the lumberyard.
Matter of fact, I work as an ESL instructor for our local Literacy Center. Several of my students hold advanced degrees and many of them are educated comparably to or above high school in their home countries. My title: Literacy Instructor. One local sweatshoppist allowed us to hold classes in his breakroom with all the workin ladies gathered around like some kind of fucked-up nospeakie board meeting. I had to sub in for the regular teacher and the goon in charge actually asked me to take off my badge that said Literacy Instructor, because he attested they’re all literate in their home language. So I said “can they read or speak English?” He shrugged, of course that’s why I was there, and then I says “if you went to work in Germany and didn’t speak a lick of German, would you blame them for calling you illiterate?” True story.
By the way I ain’t defending this boob from the Springs, Rep. Doug Bruce. It’s not what he said, it’s how he said it because for all intents and purposes I’m a peasant up to seven months out of a year. A public leader shouldn’t say “peasant” like it’s a bad thing; getting your nails dirty and bustin ass is sometimes a higher calling.
The truth is good people out there in Junction are hurting right now and this one elected official’s bitter words encapsulate the sentiment behind the pain.
Anyway, that’s how it is here. If it’s any comfort, six years ago when I lived in Longmont (north of Boulder) attitudes weren’t much different.
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso]
Matter of fact, I work as an ESL instructor for our local Literacy Center. Several of my students hold advanced degrees and many of them are educated comparably to or above high school in their home countries. My title: Literacy Instructor. One local sweatshoppist allowed us to hold classes in his breakroom with all the workin ladies gathered around like some kind of fucked-up nospeakie board meeting. I had to sub in for the regular teacher and the goon in charge actually asked me to take off my badge that said Literacy Instructor, because he attested they’re all literate in their home language. So I said “can they read or speak English?” He shrugged, of course that’s why I was there, and then I says “if you went to work in Germany and didn’t speak a lick of German, would you blame them for calling you illiterate?” True story.
[/QUOTE]
Is this a whoosh?
[QUOTE=Miller]
Is this a whoosh?
[/QUOTE]
No, why?
In retrospect I should’ve mentioned the “goon in charge” was the owner of said workshop.
[QUOTE=Miller]
Is this a whoosh?
[/QUOTE]
Yeah - I don’t understand why you would think this is a whoosh. I thought it was a good anecdote from someone living in the place in question, about the subject in question.
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso]
No, why?
In retrospect I should’ve mentioned the “goon in charge” was the owner of said workshop.
[/QUOTE]
Because under that logic you’d call somebody who spoke eight languages “illiterate” if one of them wasn’t English.
[QUOTE=Miller]
Is this a whoosh?
[/QUOTE]
Yea, you’re an idiot. 
It sounded like he was trying to parody something, and I didn’t really see any point to the story unless he was trying to make a joke. My mistake, I guess.
I suck. My anecdotes always bring everybody down.
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso]
I suck. My anecdotes always bring everybody down.
[/QUOTE]
Heh, I’m sorry, I was only kidding.
[QUOTE=mswas]
Heh, I’m sorry, I was only kidding.
[/QUOTE]
Well then, maybe I don’t suck so much after all!
I guess what I’m feeling is something close to bare-ass, in fact I haven’t been this embarrassed since I left Ohio. Fucking Colorado Springs.
This particular representative and his particular constituency is by and large way out of touch. You can fix Junction bit by bit but the Springs is untouchable because it is the Air Force. There is a cultural problem in the Air Force and it permeates everything it touches.