Attempting to use the PoA against me is silly. I have long maintained that the PoA is silly, with or without God and I challenge its use as a loyalty oath, not as a push for religion.
Beyond that, Saint Cad’s claim is bogus: it is not a “30 second pledge,” it is a 30 second pledge repeated 180 times for a school-year long 90 minutes of indoctrination repeated for the entire course of one’s basic education. Any single “20 minute rant” by a teacher will likely have far less effect. 
After listening to the tape, I’m a bit taken aback at the idea of a geography teacher who thinks that cocaine comes from “cocoa” plants.
YMMV on the immorality of capitalism, but it certainly is not an absurdity on the order of ID. Cannot be, in fact – a moral judgment cannot be held to the same standards as a “scientific” hypothesis.
. . .
:mad:
I just got burned by that dude at the Hershey’s plant!
Seriously, it’s not that egregious a mispronunciation. I’ll see “cocoa” and raise you “nucular.”
It’s been within your power to make it go away all along. All you had to do was click your heels together 3 times. But considering that you were given an official warning not long ago due to the way you frame your OPs, one has to wonder why you made such a fuss when people objected to this one. I guess it all comes down to why we come to this forum-- to debate, learn and persuade, or simply to win arguments?
Bricker, if in your classroom you allow students to talk back to the Pledge of Allegiance, encouraging debate around it and forbidding any students to insultt hose who claim it’s a sham, allowing students to say their own version of it, then the cases are similar. If not, this is a canard.
Comparing a political rant in a classroom dealing with political systems is not remotely like a religious rant in a classroom dealing with political systems.
If a teacher in a religion class said, “As a fundamentalist Christian, I believe that Jews are going to hell–but I don’t have all the answers,” I’d be pretty forgiving of it. Conversely, if this teacher said, “If your parents are capitalists, I hope they’re reincarnated as slaves so they can experience oppression firsthand,” then I’d not be forgiving of it.
The classroom you seem to advocate is absolutely milquetoast, devoid of controversy, relevance, or interest. That’s a terrible idea. Instead, let’s have schools in which teachers challenge students respectfully and encourage dissent. That’s the way we strengthen our country, by encouraging participation in a democratic society.
Daniel
I had not listened to the tape before posting (though most of my posts were fairly mild). That said, it appears that this is a regular thing for this teacher. While the tape is relatively harmless I wonder just how combative the teacher would get if someone actually challenged him on his positions. That’s the problem though isn’t it, this wasn’t a college situation or a situation where a student could be expected to respond. As I noted, it seems that this is a regular thing for the teacher to do. I still question the appropriateness of the topic in a geography class.
20 minutes out of a what? 45 minute/1 hour long geography class?
And people wonder why our students have issues finding states in our own country, let alone; have no idea where other countries reside…
Well said sir!
I believe the entire reason the student in question even bothered to bring his MP3 recorder (or whatever it was) to class is because he knew the teacher would be spouting this nonsense on a fairly regular basis. Anyway, I saw the kid interviewed and that was the impression I got.
The solution to this problem is obvious: simply ban recording devices from all classrooms in this school district. How dare these students broadcast to the world examples of this kind of socialist indoctrination!
I’ve actually heard that as a solution offered… how exactly is that a solution? Professors can claim some amount of copyright, in their lectures (esp if they are researchers/published authorities)… at the primary level (esp in public schools) that isn’t the case. All that taping a class can do is bring to the attention of others what is being said in classrooms… and that shouldn’t be a state secret, nor should the knowledge of a recording device change the teacher’s lesson (lest they know what they are saying IS inappropreate)
Very convincing… if this were the only 20 minute rant this teacher ever uttered. Considering that the student’s motive for taping the teacher was that he was tired of the teacher’s left-wing diatribes, though, I’d say that’s unlikely. And all we need do here is posit four and a half such rants, and we’re up to the 90 minutes the POA gets. And more, and it’s gravy for the Left.
I’ve listened to the tape several times now and at one point the teacher says the following:
“Do you see how this economic system (Capitalism) is at odds with humanity? At odds with caring and compassion? It’s at odds with human rights.”
That’s a comparative discussion on economic systems?
No, that’s an audition for a show on AirAmerica! Seriously, has Al Franken offered this guy his own show yet?
Bricker, I would be very intersted in what you see wrong with the capitalism comments.
Not to go off on a complete tangent but in many ways capitalism is entirely human. Working for ones own best interest. Not sure how much more humanistic a system can get.
Regardless, it hardly seems appropriate for a geography class for 16 year olds.
or any age… it is a geography class…
The system of Capitalism has been used in some extent, in EVERY sucessful country in the world… (including ‘socialist’ and ‘communist’ countries)…
The basic tenents are… you work for your own betterment, and a side effect is others get taken along for the ride…
Perhaps working for the best interests of humanity? Ever think of anyone besides yourself?
Ahh! But now you are trying to expand your claims from that of the OP. You initially voiced your approval for a suspension of the teacher based on this single “rant.” Now you are moving out to a claim that the teacher habitually tries to impose “left-wing” thoughts on the students. (And we still have no evidence that the teacher actually imposes his thoughts on the students. Regardless of the “coercive” nature of high school, this teacher was respectful of every challenge brought up by a student. Even Lochdale, who chooses to ignore the content of the class set forth by the Colorado Board of Education notes that the lecture is “relatively harmless.”)
Now, I have criticized Bennish’s presentation, already, in more than one post. Had your OP asked “What should the school administration do about this teacher?” I’d have responded, “Take him aside, make sure he knows the difference between information and advocacy, and tell him to make absolutely sure that every “fact” he introduces to class is accurate.”
Instead, you opened with a declaration that this single lecture was legitimate grounds for suspending the teacher, then went on to poison the well regarding who would respond to your post, and you are now shifting the goalposts.
Working for your own best interest DOES provide for others… BUT that being said… what job could you possibly do, where you are helping others, while not looking out for your best interst?