Expression of personal politics/religion in public schools; acceptable?

Great Debates
1

After reading through a bit of the pit thread about the teacher who may or may not be an idiot, I got to thinking about, well, what would be so wrong if a teacher was a vocal suporter of Bush in the class room (or Kerry, or whomever)?

I’ve been working in the school system for a few years now, and I am very open about my politics, faith (or lack thereof), etc etc etc. Granted, there is a time, place, and method for discussing things like that, and there’s an intelligent way and a stupid way to do it, and the bottom line is that any student has a right to his or her own opinion, even if it’s contrary to mine; my goal is never to coerce, only to engage in thoughtful dialogue. That’s part of bringing up intelligent thoughtful people.

Now I know this doesn’t exactly parallel the story in the other thread, but I’m curious about others’ opinions. I know one teacher in the school at which I work who has a few Christian posters up on the walls in his room. Some are really bothered by it. I feel like he’s expressing a part of who he is, in his own classroom. Putting them up in the halls would feel like the school pushing something, but in his room, it’s clearly he who has opinions and beliefs, not the institution.

Thoughts? (I have to run, but I’ll be back later)!

2

I disagree. The class room isn’t actually his room, it’s the schools. Furthermore if students wish to graduate they have to be in that room.

He’s just using that space, he doesn’t own it.

3

It depends. How old are the students? Are they old enough to be able to form their own opinions, based on fact or is it “because the grown up says so”? Are you voicing opinions that they feel comfortable discussing or disagreeing with? Do you hold it against them in any way (grades, put downs etc)?
Since they are your students, you do have a “captive audience”. It may be best to leave some things alone. As the teacher, you are “the voice of authority” in some ways.

4

I’ve had a lot of discussions with my mother (an award-winning middle school teacher in a public Illinois school) on this issue, and it is indeed a tricky one. She teaches a lot of social studies classes on Ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome, and has on occasion had to deal with crazy parents acusing her of violating the separation of church and state by teaching the Greek pantheon, or having the students write a poem about the Egyptian sun god Ra. Most of the time, she is able to reassure them that she is teaching *about * these religions, not *promoting * them, which is what the law forbids. There have been two students I can remember (both Jehovah’s Witnesses) who have spent most of the social studies year in the library doing boring research papers because their parents were adamant that they could not remain in her classroom.

Given this type of atmosphere, any personal declarations of religion (and it seems that this year politics is indeed a religion - lots of rabid followers worshipping sacred cows) are very dangerous to a teacher’s career. Do they have the right to express themselves? No, not really. They’re being paid to do a job, and that job specifically precludes the freedom of speech sometimes. They’re not allowed to endorse or promote a religion, they’re not allowed to swear, they’re not allowed to reveal IQ scores to students, they’re not allowed to tell Billy that his mother’s a crack-whore wacko who shouldn’t be allowed to breed.

A small cross, crucifix, Star-of-David or pentacle worn as a necklace or ring probably won’t cause a ruckuss. Probably. But religious posters on the wall? Man, that teacher is taking his career into his hands, there. That’s crossing the line into promotion of religion, which is illegal in our public schools. (Unless it’s part of a larger display of world religions, or obviously relates to what the class is studying at the moment.)

5

It depends on (at least) the age of the students, the class the teacher is teaching, the intrusiveness of the teacher’s religious and political beliefs, and the manner in which the comment(s) are made.

Assuming the second version of the story is correct, with the exception of age (Middle school is old enough) the teacher in the linked thread did everything wrong.

WRT religion, teachers should not actively proselytize at school (or during school activities) so, the posters on that teacher’s wall are absolutely not acceptable. However, I’ve no problems with teachers eating or not eating various foods at various times for religious reasons, nor with teachers answering “what did you do on Sunday, Mr. Smith?” with “After church, I watched football.” If they take holidays off, I don’t think they should have to hide why they were gone. I have no problem with casual mention. I have a great problem with anything that might be directing the students in what they should be doing, too.

WRT politics, I’m one of the people who does think that schools should be teaching kids to be good citizens (which in my mind, includes voting). So, I’m ok with encouraging the kids to learn about local/state/national issues and to vote, once they’re old enough. Kids should (at the appropriate age) be taught how to research both (or all) sides of any issue and how to coherently express their opinions. And no kid should feel penalized or threatened for coming to a different conclusion than the teacher.

6

When I was in high school I had a history teacher who made no bones about being conservative and a big Reagan supporter. I still feel lucky to have had him as a teacher. Essentially because he used his own political ideas as a jumping off point for debate. I was actually one of his favorite students because I was willing to argue with him (me being quite the little socialist at the time).

7

Keep in mind that while you may be broadminded and accepting of that teacher’s expression of his beliefs, a Christian fundamentalist student might not be so accepting of a Wiccan or Muslim or Druid who put up posters reflecting her or his beliefs. The government can’t allow one religious faith to do it and not allow even devil worshippers to do the same. If some students are really bothered by it, isn’t that a good enough reason to take them down when they are not supposed to be there?

Must we keep making our schools a battlefield?

When I retired from teaching, there were still two teachers who brought religion into the classroom. (This was in high school.) One was fired. She taught special education and frightened her students when she had a laying on of hands ritual for a student with a headache. (In my opinion, the teacher had been mentally ill for years.) The other teacher had religious posters up in her room. She was fired, but not for the posters. She was having an affair with one of her students who was about 25 years younger than she.

As long as students are in public high schools, they have to be considered vulnerable to influence. It is the duty of the teacher to help the student to learn to think for herself or himself, not to endoctrinate. A classroom is not private property. Posters should serve a purpose for the students – not for the teacher.

Although I am a Christian, I did wear a Star-of-David for educational purposes at one time. One of my students was a member of the KKK and thought he hated Jews. Sensing that this student had some respect for me, I began wearing the symbol around my neck. He asked me if I was a Jew and I wouldn’t tell him. I said something to the effect that he would have to decide. I don’t think he ever resolved the issue, but it made him think.

I haven’t taught for fifteen years and two days. Damn. I miss my students.

8

Sorry about the delay getting back to this:

Meatros,

On one level I get your point about a teacher not owning his or her classroom. On the other hand, it’s generally acceptable for teachers to decorate their rooms with any manner of personal belongings. Not that these are at all on the same level, but I think a student ought to be able to differentiate between the personal opinion of a teacher who likes the Red Sox and has team poster up and a blanket statement of the institution supporting Boston baseball. Similarly, even though it is the school’s room, it should be fairly obvious that the school itself is not promoting or pushing anything (and in fact, a poster or two does not necessarially mean a teacher is promoting or pushing something).

You do make a good point about a student being a captive audience. My response would depend a bit on the content of posters/whatever. Generally, though, if the teacher wasn’t treating students differently based on their responses or lack thereof, and none of the material was attacking students, I’d give the teacher wide latitude.

Zoe (and others),

See, the thing is, I don’t see how sheltering students from beliefs and opinions of others is a good thing. If a student is bothered by, for example, a teacher wearing a Star of David, then that’s not the teacher’s problem, nor is it the school’s problem. It’s the student’s problem, and one that school should be helping the kid to work through. If a kid has some inherent problem with the expression of Christianity, or anything else, he or she better learn to deal with that quickly before leaving the shelter of home and school. Granted, a teacher’s job is to help facilitate that acceptance of other ideas in a thoughtful and caring way, but a poster on the classroom wall falls well within those bounds, IMO.

9

Eonwe: *On the other hand, it’s generally acceptable for teachers to decorate their rooms with any manner of personal belongings. *

Usually, though, they’re supposed to be noncontroversial. I think it depends in large measure how clearly the space is identified as being dedicated to the teacher’s use. Bibles or other religious paraphernalia inside the teacher’s desk? Sure. On the teacher’s own personal bookshelf? Sure. Religious motifs on the teacher’s briefcase or tote bag, or religious or political bumper stickers on his/her car? Fine by me.

As long as these things are for the teacher’s personal use (like a Bible or religious statuette on the teacher’s bookshelf) or for expressing his/her opinions outside of the school environment (like the bumper sticker), I don’t think the school has any business interfering with them. If students are bothered by them, they can choose not to look at them.

But a big honkin’ explicitly religious poster stuck up on the wall of the classroom has no purpose but to proselytize for that religion. Or at least, it can’t help proselytizing, because it’s designed to attract attention. Same for political materials. Making students look at a big sign that says “Jesus is Lord” or “Guns Make US Safer” or “Dump Bush” every day is intrusive, IMO.

I’d even use the same rule for comparatively benign, but still potentially controversial, decorations like sports team posters or reproductions of works of art showing nudity. In other words, if it deals with a controversial subject and it’s designed and placed so that a well-meaning person can’t easily ignore it, the teacher should remove it.

10

No, a teacher’s job is to teach the curriculum laid out by the school district and state.

Religion is not an allowable part of this curriculum by law.

We can have a much more interesting discussion about what I think *should * be the case. We can have a great debate on what teaching *should * be, the molding of young minds, the teaching of how to think, the creation of bright, energetic doers-of-good who understand how the world works and their place in it, who are motivated to fight the good fight for truth, justice and oil prices, but none of that matters in this thread as laid out in the OP:

What would be so wrong is that it would be illegal, in the case of religion. In the case of politics, it’s not so clear, but I think any teacher who values his/her job and standing in the community must always err on the side of caution, especially during a hotly contested election year. The political angle I’m not so concerned about, frankly. We always had a picture of the current prez. in my classroom growing up, right next to the flag. It never occured to me to be upset about it. In fact, mindless rugrat that I was, I was proud of President Regan simply because he *was * president. shudder

For what it’s worth, I agree with you philisophically. I would be much happier with a well-reasoned debate in which my son’s teacher encouraged him to form his own informed opinions on topics ranging from religion to ecology. But it really isn’t her job. It’s her job to make sure he can read and write a coherent paragraph. And, judging by some of my husband’s ENG101 college students, even this is too difficult for some teachers to do.

I also agree that the OP’s question would be answered differently for older students. I do think that some amount of confrontation and debate in high school should be encouraged, and I for one was disappointed when college turned out NOT to have the exhilarating discourse I’ve always seen on TV.

11

My husband has come up against this problem. He teaches sociology at our local branch campus.

Every quarter, he assigns two papers, both with the same objective: to analyze a social issue through one of the sociological perspectives: symbolic interactionism, functionalism, conflict, etc. (He treats the first as sort of a “practice run” because sometimes the students don’t quite get it the first time around.)

Always, the first papers include ones which say, “I believe abortion is murder because God says in the Bible in verse . . . .” He patiently explains that while he respects their opinions, Christianity is not one of the recognized sociological perspectives which they’re studying.

Inevitably, a few of the same type of papers are turned in the second time (which has often made me wonder if these students are trying to make a point by “martyring” themselves). When he grades them more harshly the second time because they again refused to follow the assignment, he is accused of being an atheist who is hostile to Christianity.

In his case, the opposite to the OP is true: he’s trying to keep the focus of the class on the subject at hand and gets villified by religious students because of it. Politics, of course, also get dragged into the issue. This is a very conservative area, and it seems that because in the course of his class that he presents both sides of social issues, he is accused of being a liberal, and anti-God. (He’s actually a moderate Catholic.)

You can’t please everyone. Religious students will see a class devoid of religious reference as being anti-theist, whereas any non-religious student would see any reference to religion as being intolerable-- the same goes for politics. I guess the old adage holds true: you know you’re moderate if both sides are unhappy with you.

12

The teacher is a representative of “the State” in that classroom and that’s why a religious poster is unacceptable. (I don’t have a problem with religious jewelry.)

If one teacher is allowed to put up a Christian poster, that opens the door for anti-Christian posters and posters that would be offensive to many of the students. If the teacher cannot survive the day without seeing a depiction of Jesus, he or she can always keep one taped inside a drawer.

The first year that I was a teacher, the principal was fond of reading the Bible aloud over the intercom system daily. One of the teachers objected to it in a faculty meeting. He slammed his fist down and bellowed that he would continue to do just that until a court order prevented him from doing so. Too bad that her husband was an attorney with the ACLU.

But what was even worse was that he was one of the unkindest men I have ever known. Every inch the bully.

13

No, it doesn’t open the door for anti-Christian posters. It opens the door for posters expressing beliefs other than Christianity. And, students might find homework offensive, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have it. (I know that was a little obtuse and not really responding to what you meant, but my point is that what students like or dislike shouldn’t be the end all and be all of conversation when it comes to school policy. Sometimes students are wrong).

WhyNot,

See, I think that’s the issue being fought out in society today. Is school a standardised-test-result factory, or is it a place in which growing minds expand and learn more how to interpret the world around them? And, honestly, as a teacher (both in a school setting and in my everyday life), I would refuse to omit the latter because my ‘job description’ only requires the former.

kimstu,

What qualifies as ‘noncontroversial’? I think the idea that ‘as long as we’re not making anyone think about ‘controversial’ issues it’s ok’ is an indefensible position. Heck, evolution is a ‘controversial’ belief. Just because people think differently on an issue doesn’t mean it should be verboten in a public school setting, even if a kid’s parents feel differently.

And, regarding your poster examples, I agree with you on the ones you present. First, I think that criticizing a legitimate political position (dump Bush) is not acceptable. It’s about opening minds and exposing people to other opinions, not criticizing viewpoints and promoting negative attitudes. As far as ‘Jesus is Lord’, I agree with you there as well, because it states as fact something that is clearly (at least in the context of a school) one of a myriad of opinions. A poster quoting a Bible verse about studying hard, though, (…For Studying is the work of Virtue… Homework 3:16), would be fine.

14

So…in your political discussions, you are not going to allow criticism of Democracy?

One of my colleagues was a Communist. Should she have been allowed to make Communist literature available in her classroom? Put up a bulletin board about the Communist candidates? Discuss her personal political beliefs?

If a teacher wants to put up posters advocating worship of Lucifer or Isis, is that okay? Is it all right to put up posters advocating atheism?

Who gets to decide these things?

I agree with you that it is not always a matter of what is offensive to a student and what is not. But there are certain rights protected by the Constitution. There is no right to be protected from the establishment of homework assignments. There is a right to be protected from the establishment of religion by the state (represented by the teacher).

15

Eonwe: kimstu, What qualifies as ‘noncontroversial’? I think the idea that ‘as long as we’re not making anyone think about ‘controversial’ issues it’s ok’ is an indefensible position. Heck, evolution is a ‘controversial’ belief. Just because people think differently on an issue doesn’t mean it should be verboten in a public school setting, even if a kid’s parents feel differently.

Whoa. I never said that teachers shouldn’t deal with controversial subjects or ideas in a class setting. I’m just saying they shouldn’t make controversial propaganda part of the ordinary classroom environment, so that kids have to absorb it passively and routinely.

Sure, discuss Christianity in class. Discuss evolution, whatever. Go to town. That’s not the same thing as sticking up a poster, as part of the ordinary classroom background, that is constantly slamming home its rhetorical point over and over and over again every time the kids look around. That’s not teaching, that’s propaganda, and very intrusive propaganda at that.

16

But there are ways to do this that aren’t illegal! That aren’t such a sore spot that cause pain and strife within children and at the dinner table! That don’t put your job at risk! That don’t cause debate on a message board!

I think the Lucifer test is a good one. Would you put up this poster if it contained a picture or quote from Lucifer instead of YHVH and you lived in the Bible Belt? Could you reasonably expect to find yourself hanging from a tree in the schoolyard or nailed to a really big stick and set on fire? If so, then it’s not appropriate: Lucifer or YHVH.

No, evolution is a controversial theory. And should be presented as such. (And I say this as a daughter of science. Theory and Law are not the same in our religion of Science, and this is a good time to teach that, as well as to teach the differing finer points that various schools of thought have on the topic even within Science.)

One will never be free from controversial subjects. We live in a highly vocal and differentiated society. Even the seemingly simple stuff like “Don’t hurt people,” is going to have it’s detractors. (“What about violent revolution? What about defending your children?”) But the one controversial issue that’s so big that people have agreed for over 200 years doesn’t belong in our schools (at least agreed enough that laws are still in place) is religion.

I’m willing to concede politics so far as to say that if a teacher is using politics in order to teach current events, democratic process or critical thinking, fine. But if you’re simply Kerry stumping or even Bush-bashing, it is inappropriate.

17

I had a similar experience in high school and I really appreciated it. In my case, my Economics/Government teacher was the strong Reagon supporter. One of our History teachers was a strong socialist. Both encouraged really interesting and thought-provoking classroom discussions. I probably learned more during those discussions than reading the class textbooks. During my sophmore year ('81-'82), the debate team hosted a supply-side economics debate between these two teachers. We had it in the auditorium and students were premitted to ask questions after the moderator had finished with his. I remember thinking long and hard about a good question to ask and, during the process, became interested in public affairs for the first time.

So I’m in favor of political discussions and teachers expressing their opinions on such provided it’s done in a respectful manner and no students are demeaned for their opinions (arguments can be refuted, however).

Religion is another matter. We had discussions on religion in school, but I went to Catholic Jesuit school so it was a given that there’d be religious opinions expressed there. I wouldn’t want it in the public schools. Faith is so much more personal than a political choice.

18

That is a lot different from the situation described in the pit thread, and is the sort of thing I would encourage. It encourages students to make decisions and think for themselves. It is completely opposite from forcing them to parrot your own “truths” and insulting them if they don’t.

19

I totally agree SteveG1.

I was commenting on the question “what would be so wrong if a teacher was a vocal suporter of Bush in the class room (or Kerry, or whomever)?” I didn’t mean to imply any support for the teacher in the pit thread.

You make an important point. The distinction between when the class is having a discussion of opinions and when teachers are teaching facts should be made very clear. And teachers should never make a student feel pressured into having one opinion or another.

20

Zoe,

Good point, and I think in the bit you quoted from me I wasn’t articulating my point well. It’s not that I don’t think there’s a place for criticism in discussion, it’s that anything that’s going to be “passive and routine” (according to Kimstu) ought not to be thinly veiled insults to students’ beliefs. “Dump Bush” on a poster teaches nothing. All it says, without any other context, is, “Bush is a poopyhead,” which is not a constructive jumping off point for discussion or education.

I guess, the more I talk about this, the difference (and maybe this is what y’all have been saying) between what is acceptable and what is not is this: Everything I do at the school is intentional. If and when I talk about politics, I do so in a manner that’s mindful of the students’ learning process, their opinions, and their relationship to me. Life is learning, and when you’re in a school it is even more so. Nothing I say or do is without purpose. Likewise when talking about religion, sex, violence, drugs, or any other ‘issue’ that is an integral part of society, the school, media, and the kids’ lives. To say anything without consideration for them is criminal.

So, maybe I agree about the posters. Why are they there? What are they teaching? Are they truly informing about a certain perspective, or is the teacher just throwing his beliefs and opinions out there with no consideration of the educational implications of doing so? I don’t know the answer, but maybe that’s the question that should be asked of any situation.

Kimstu,

Points well taken; see above.

WhyNot,

But if there wasn’t debate on a message board, what would I do on a Saturday afternoon!?!?!? :wink:

Seriously, though, I’d have to call ‘cite’ on the ‘illegal’ part. I mean, I understand conceptually church/state seperation, but are there legal cases where a teacher who had a religious poster up in his/her room has been shown to have broken that law?

Absolutely. But, from some perspectives, it’s just a belief, and a wrong one at that. Perhaps from your scientific perspective it’s a theory, but, hey, you can think whatever you want, it’s all just mumbo-jumbo anti-Christian ignorance.

The point being, that truth in public education is in the eye of the beholder. You concede politics in the context of teaching current events/democratic process, but I would say that any time an educator talks about politics he or she is teaching about current events, whether it’s a lecture of dates and figures or a discussion on the validity of Bush’s reasons to go to war, or whatever. Just because it’s not in the curriculum doesn’t mean it ought not be tought.

SteveG1,

Yeah, I cited the pit thread, and I kind of wish I hadn’t. It’s what got me thinking about this this week, but that incident isn’t really what I’m interested in.