We’ll never know, will we? But look at some other groups such as the KKK and skinheads. They don’t need to be wronged to start trouble. They breed hate within themselves and unleash it upon those they perceive to be beneath them. Maybe, just maybe, these kids that went around shooting people were truly evil? The only thing that the ridiculing did was justify, in their own minds, that they were doing right by killing. How’s that for an alternate reason?
But what if they weren’t evil? What if they were just teenagers who were different and taunted to the point of breaking. Does that in any way justify their actions? “Well, Jimmy killed three people, but he was called a faggot so I can understand.” Taunting is wrong. Killing is wrong. If I had to choose one to stop, I would pick killing every single day of the week and twice on Yom Kippur. Why? First, because killing is killing. Duh. Secondly, taunting does not automatically lead to killing so solving for the first will not stop the second from happening.
Do you see what I’m getting at? I would love to see everyone get along and this to be a happy world where no one makes fun of anyone else. But you cannot blame person A because person B picked up a gun and killed regardless of whatever person A did to person B.
Domina, I agree with most of what you said. Sometimes cause and effect do become reversed and people wear black because they were taunted and not in spite of it. But that even furthers my argument. People are getting shunned and so they start to act in a way that ensures that they will? Why not just paint a scarlet “A” on their chest?
I think I’m getting the wrong message across here…
What happened was horrible, and in the end the responsibility lies in the hands of the gunmen. That goes without saying.
But what I am saying is that at least part of the blame has to lie with the system that they were in. The papers have been full of what-if’s and who’s fault, but I feel that part of it is the systems fault.
You are correct, killing is wrong, as is taunting, but in the end the school could have taken measures to at least minimize the taunting, and if that had happened, maybe the killing might not have taken place… still might have, but we can’t know.
The bottom line of what I’m saying is that part of what was wrong there was the system that the kids existed in… that’s all.
It is a system where the needs of every individual cannot be addressed. The system is limited and I’m not so sure I want to attempt to make it cater to the needs of every individual. I suppose there’s room for some improvements though. But we’ll always have popular kids, unpopular kids, and kids who are picked on.
Eh. You’re right, of course. But there’s a difference between what can be seen as normal school harassment and what is harassment of the more institutionalized variety. It’s no big deal if you get picked on by jocks, but it IS a big deal if the school allows it to happen or even tacitly encourages it.
I was generally lucky. I was “of the goth persuasion, sort of” in high school (Manual High School in Denver, '92). But I was also big enough (6’2", 215) to take care of myself. And I didn’t attempt to be insular, which probably helped. But I did see abuse of others going on all the time. The main difference, though, is that it wasn’t tolerated by the Powers That Be. They weren’t catering to individual groups, they were just enforcing a common standard of decency across the board. That, in my experience and those of my family (one Chatfield High School '97 graduate, and others coming up) is what’s missing at Columbine. There’s a system there, and in many other almost-all-white suburban high school, which lacks experience with diversity and thus has a lot of trouble with tolerance.
All that said, I don’t think the appropriate response is to gun down lots of your classmates. But neither am I going to berate anyone for thinking about it.
I recall drawing up plans to torture my classmates and my teachers in sixth and seventh grade. A couple of friends and I worked out in some detail the best way to take over the school forcibly. This was just escapist fantasy, of course. I shudder when I think what might have become of me had a teacher seen those plans.
Throughout my time in the public education system, I encountered numerous teachers who did nothing to stop even the most obvious of bullies. Once, in fourth grade (IIRC) a classmate threatened to beat me up after school. I immediately told the teacher, who promptly laughed at me and told me that I had nothing to worry about. After class, I was pushed down in the snow and hit half-heartedly a couple of times before the bully got bored and moved on.
Another time, I was pushed into a mud puddle. The perpetrator got into no trouble, save for a two minute finger-wagging session from the principal. The next day, he was back to bullying.
Yet another time, teachers watched passively as I was yelled at and pushed on my way to lunch. Actually, this occured nearly every day for a month, until I grabbed this bully’s hair and threw her to the floor as hard as I could. The teachers watched this, and did nothing.
Once, a student behind me kept purposefully kicking the back of my chair. He did this with much gusto, jarring me every few seconds. In the middle of class, I turned around and told him to please stop kicking the back of my chair. The teacher gave me a dirty look as if I were distrupting class, and the kicking continued.
I find it very easy to believe that the “system” does very little to discourage bullying and teasing. I know that it is most likely impossible to eliminate all such impurities from the system, but I find it very distressing that it is not opposed at all, except, perhaps, in words alone.
I’m not saying individual attentions is the possible, although it would be nice, but how big does a group have to be to be considered “defendable”?
Most of the freaky friends I had in school made good grades, several of them were involved in after-school stuff… why weren’t we afforded the same respect as the other students?
As for the idea that there will ** always** be those that will be picked on, it may be true but it doesn’t make it right. Not by any stretch… it’s like saying that anti-semetism is ok because there will always be anti-semites.
ps, please don’t turn this into a thread on anti-semitism…thanks!
When I was in Jr. High, I was picked on by a group of female bullies. Girl bullies tend to operate more by taunts and spreading malicious, false rumors than my getting physical.
I put a stop to it.
One girl was taunting me in the hallway, I grabbed her wrist and dug my nails in so hard I drew blood. She never picked on me again.
One tripped me up in the hallway on the way to lunch. One day I decided I had had enough, grabbed her by the hair and slammed her into a locker. She let up for about three weeks. First time she tried it again, I grabbed her, dragged her into the bathroom, she succeeded in tripping me up so I lost my grip, but I regained my balance and grabbed her by both wrists, dug in my nails, and yes, drew blood again, and slammed her into the wall. I was just about to open up a big can of whupass on her, but the bell rang, and I didn’t want to be late for English class, so I let her go. Neither she nor her cronies picked on me again.
The only thing bullies understand is having the ones they’re bullying fight back. If you’re small and weak, travel in packs. Also, you’d be amazed at the physical strength smaller kids can summon when they’re really pissed…
I’m curious, Matt. Did you post this to help illustrate the problems gay youth face, or (and?) did this interaction actually take place with you or with someone you know? If so, I would be real curious as to what the outcome was.
I’m sure there are some teachers who do care but who realize there is often a catch-22 in trying to stop bullying. If a bully is disciplined for picking on you, he’ll then really let you have it for getting him in trouble. All in all, though, schools can and should be doing a lot more to stop bullying but they turn their backs because they don’t want to deal with it. The school that was recently sued for permitting the viscious harrassment of a gay student found out what a high price there is to pay.
I think it’s pretty interesting that they never tell you as a kid that MANY of the jock/popular/“too beautiful for you” people peak in high school and have 60-70 more years of life left to moon about the past.
I was in high school 20 years ago and was not unpopular or popular. I haven’t peaked yet. BWAAAA HA HA HA
I want to go to my 20th high school reunion, find the bitches that made my life miserable and say, “I’m a craps dealer in Vegas. What do you do for a living?”
Yeah, I’m always hearing about how the head cheerleader wound up living in a trailer park, divorced from the captain of the football team who’s a deadbeat dad.
'Course the clique that picked on me weren’t cheerleaders or anything, but I have no doubt that they came to bad ends. A bully type who gets out into the working world won’t last long. With the harassment laws that are on the books these days, it wouldn’t take long before someone who thought they were on the management fast track found themselves as head fry cook at McD’s.
This stuff you guys are talking about is so foreign to me it isn’t even funny.
How about a school where the smart and the different are welcomed & admired?
Dear God, the idea of a faculty that worships at the feet of mere jocks is too weird for words.
Sadly, it’s not all that uncommon these days, although I was happily surprised to learn that my old Alma Mater has started to lean towards the Academic.