Comic books - Kids Stuff?

Great Debates
1

Ok, I’m new to this board - so Hi to all current members.

I was just looking for some general input into the world of comics. I’m a 26-year old who still nips out of work every Thursday lunch time to pick up the latest batch of DC and Marvel comics to read and then add to my ever growing collection - but I constantly take a slagging in work for reading comics…even though I try to explain that they are more for adults than anything else.

Do kids even read comics anymore? or is their world too wrapped up in computers and the internet?

2

Neil Gaiman.
Walter Moore.
Joseph Michael Straczynski.
Joss Weadon.

These are writers. The last two are big time TV executive produces, with entire series to their name: Babylon 5 and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, respectively. And they all write comics. That is the medium that allows them to tell their stories.

A writer chooses a medium because it best suits the story that she or he wants to tell. Some stories are best told in comics, and they can be classic.

And, yes, kids still read comics. But so do a lot of adults.

Check out what Straczynski is doing with Spiderman. Aunt May is all of a sudden a real person (“I love it when the wheels start turning.”) A whole new take on Spidey’s origins, which has tremendous story potential. A new profession. A new way of “giving back”.

That, my friends, is writing.

3

I’ve been reading comics since the mid-seventies. My first job ever was working in a comic-store. And sadly, I have to disagree with dlb.

Comics aren’t accessible to kids anymore. I like Straczynski’s take on Spidey (except for the “He’s a Spider-Elemental” thing, but let’s see where he goes with it.), but it’s not for kids and it’s not designed to be accessible to kids. If you came in in the middle of the story (the current issue, with the fight with…uwm say) you’d be lost. And to a kid, long storylines lasting months or years with no conclusions are not good ways to get new readers involved.

Even in Stan Lee’s day, every single issue was treated as if it were someone’s first issue. Yes, that meant that you’d have lots of redundant dialogue (“Green Lantern’s ring, due to a necessary impurity, cannot affect anything yellow!”) from issue to issue, but by God, anyone could pick up an issue and have no problem knowing what’s going on.

There were also less “big dumb events”. Crisis was special. Now, every summer, it’s a race to see how many stupid-tie in books can be linked to a lame storyline. DC’s current one (“Invasion, Part Two” or “Worlds At War” or whatever the hell it’s called) is so bad, and so incestuous that despite having a complete run of Superman and Action from about 1953, I’m dropping all Superman titles. I’m sick of being forced to buy crappy books I don’t enjoy so I can understand good ones that I do enjoy.

Marketing the snuffing of characters is another bad sign: the big news is that in October, a “major, mainstream” Marvel character will be killed. :rolleyes: After Aunt May, and Jean Grey and Doc Ock and Cyclops and Professor X and whoever else, this seems to be greeted with bored curiosity (“Who’ll die this time and <yawn> how long’ll s/he stay dead this time?”)

While I treasure Gainman, and Moore, and etc…, they’re not very kid-accessible. I personally love long, convoluted sagas involving minutae of continuity, but as much as I love stuff like Earth-X, it ain’t gonna bring in new readers either.

The way the readership is declining, the way that sales are plumetting, the way kids aren’t getting hooked on comics early, and the way that ridiculous levels of inter-book continuity are being done to death, and the fact that there aren’t any entry level books (Spider-Girl being one of the very few exceptions), I firmly (and sadly) believe that the medium of comic-books, in the format of monthly pamphlets will be mostly gone in 10-20 years.

Thus endeth my rant,

Fenris

4

I’ve been reading comics since the mid-seventies. My first job ever was working in a comic-store. And sadly, I have to disagree with dlb.

Comics aren’t accessible to kids anymore. I like Straczynski’s take on Spidey (except for the “He’s a Spider-Elemental” thing, but let’s see where he goes with it.), but it’s not for kids and it’s not designed to be accessible to kids. If you came in in the middle of the story (the current issue, with the fight with…uwm say) you’d be lost. And to a kid, long storylines lasting months or years with no conclusions are not good ways to get new readers involved.

Even in Stan Lee’s day, every single issue was treated as if it were someone’s first issue. Yes, that meant that you’d have lots of redundant dialogue (“Green Lantern’s ring, due to a necessary impurity, cannot affect anything yellow!”) from issue to issue, but by God, anyone could pick up an issue and have no problem knowing what’s going on.

There were also less “big dumb events”. Crisis was special. Now, every summer, it’s a race to see how many stupid-tie in books can be linked to a lame storyline. DC’s current one (“Invasion, Part Two” or “Worlds At War” or whatever the hell it’s called) is so bad, and so incestuous that despite having a complete run of Superman and Action from about 1953, I’m dropping all Superman titles. I’m sick of being forced to buy crappy books I don’t enjoy so I can understand good ones that I do enjoy.

Marketing the snuffing of characters is another bad sign: the big news is that in October, a “major, mainstream” Marvel character will be killed. :rolleyes: After Aunt May, and Jean Grey and Doc Ock and Cyclops and Professor X and whoever else, this seems to be greeted with bored curiosity (“Who’ll die this time and <yawn> how long’ll s/he stay dead this time?”)

While I treasure Gainman, and Moore, and etc…, they’re not very kid-accessible. I personally love long, convoluted sagas involving minutae of continuity, but as much as I love stuff like Earth-X, it ain’t gonna bring in new readers either.

The way the readership is declining, the way that sales are plumetting, the way kids aren’t getting hooked on comics early, and the way that ridiculous levels of inter-book continuity are being done to death, and the fact that there aren’t any entry level books (Spider-Girl being one of the very few exceptions), I firmly (and sadly) believe that the medium of comic-books, in the format of monthly pamphlets will be mostly gone in 10-20 years.

I’m emphatically not saying that comics are or should be only for kids, but without getting a new generation of kids reading comics, the medium as it now stands is doomed.

Thus endeth my rant,

Fenris

5

**

I’m not as big a comic weenie as you but I agree with your assessment. (I wish I were as big a comic weenie as you though.) The last few months I lived in Dallas I worked at Lonestar Comics. The vast majority of people who bought comics were males in their late teens through mid twenties.

When parents would ask me what comics were good for kids I’d have to point them to the kiddie rack. Things like Archie, Dexter’s Lab, Gotham Adventures, Superman Adventures, and Batman Beyond. While I didn’t read all of them the Superman/Batman Adventures and Batman Beyond were decent kid comics.

I heard that the Ultimate Spider-Man series was suppose to bring in new fans. And although I like it a lot of Spider-Man purist can’t stand it and it certainly isn’t for kids.

**

In the 90’s I got out of comic books because of the crummy writing. Spider-Man was no longer cool and that made me a very sad panda.

**

Bingo!! I enjoy Nightwing and I really hated it when the regular storyline was interrupted by the No Man’s Land saga.
Marc

6

All the massive inter-book continuity stuff keeps out adults, as well. There’s some series I’m sometimes tempted to check out, never having done the comic book thing as a child, but it’s such a massive investment of time and catching-up that it’s simply not worth it to me.

Standalone collections into graphic novels are a good thing, though. “Watchmen”, crikey, I wish I’d picked that up years ago.

7

I couldn’t agree more. Not only are the storylines to difficult, the comics are overpriced for the budgets of most kids. When I was a young’un, comics were 20 cents. I could take a buck into the store and come out with 5 comics. The joy! In the late 70’s a series of steep price increases started, and they never stopped. Even taking inflation into account, the prices are ridiculous these days.

The other big change from the 70’s is the advent of video games. Spare time that used to be spent reading comics now gets spent in front of the glowing screen.

I’ve tried buying comics for my pre-teen nephews, but they have zero interest. Nor do any of their friends collect comics.

The comic book is dying, I fear.

8

Another factor to consider is that many parents might be off put by the violence in comics these days. I grew up with comics like Spider-Man and Batman in the early 80’s and they usually weren’t as violent. Here’s a few examples of comics I’ve picked up today and the violent acts in them.

Tangled Web: Severance Package; A man gets his head blown off in a car and another man has his neck broken. It isn’t to graphic but I wouldn’t want my 6 year old reading it. Uh, if I had a 6 year old.

Nightwing: The Target (a short graphic novel): The police beat one man to death and make the other brain dead. It isn’t to grahpic though there is plenty of blood dripping off night sticks. There’s also a bloody shootout at the end of the book.

Ultimate Marvel Teamup starring Spider-Man and Punisher; In this issue the Punisher is in prison and kills a fellow inmate with a spoon. (He’s the Punisher who’s bright idea was it to put him in general population?)

I don’t personally mind the level of violence in any of these books. However many parents probably don’t want their kids reading that kind of stuff. And as Fenris, I think it was Fenris, pointed out earlier there aren’t that many comics dedicated to children.

Oh, and welcome to the boards Hohiro. Where did you get that name anyway? And about taking some slagging from coworkers because you read comics, have no fear. Take for example Tangled Web #4: Severance Package. It was an excellent story in my opinion and even without the violence it was a grown up story. I could see a whole movie being based off the premise.

Marc

9

I have only one answer to “kids aren’t reading comics”; I see a lot of them doing so. Perhaps I am judging from an inadequate sample, but it seems that they are about the same age I was when I started. It’s hard for me to believe that kids around Leesburg and suburban DC are somehow more literate than those in other parts of the country.

Younger kids seem to be hooked on Pokemon and such like things. Not my thing, but it seems to last until they start reading, and there are Pokemon comics and such.

Violence has always been a controversial issue with comics; remember that little stamp through a lot of the sixties and seventies that had some sort of “seal of approval” as not being too bad? I remember when Marvel stopped using it because it wouldn’t let them deal with drug addiction in their storylines. It was a big deal at the time. The “mainline” comics were not as violent, but there were always those that seemed to specialize in being as graphic as possible.

No, I’m not going to give “Preacher” to an eight year old. But there seems to be enough of a spread that parents can help their kids pick and choose if they wish.

10

**

I worked at Lonestar Comics in Plano, Texas earlier this year. We got plenty of kids coming in but most of them weren’t buying comic books they were buying card games or Warhammer stuff. Most of the people who bought comics were males from their mid-late teens through the late 20’s.

Normally I wouldn’t expect one store to be a fair sampling. Lonestar is a pretty large company with 8 locations in the D/FW area. I was told by the owner during my job interview that those were the main customers at all their locations so far as comics went. So while some kids might read comics they don’t seem to be the ones buying them.

**

Not big sellers where I worked. I think Sailor Moon comics sold better then Pokemon. But then it tended to be females of various ages who bought up most of the manga. Uh, not counting things like Gundam Wing.

**

Keep in mind as you read this that I’m not against violence in comics.
You’re right that violence (and sex)has always been a controversial issue with comics. But if a person who read Superman comics in the early 70’s or 80’s picked up Superman today he’d notice quite a difference. Even Superman has more blood in it then it did back then.

**

As I recall they stopped using it for one issue that dealt with drugs. It was an anti-drug message, I think Harry overdosed or something, but the comics code was not forgiving. Both Ultimate Spider-Man and Amazing Spider-Man currently use the comics code. I think the standards have probably changed since then.

One other reason comics aren’t that popular with youngsters is because of the writing. I believe Fenris mentioned that already. It is difficult to follow a storyline that last for 3-5 issues especially when there’s only one issue per month. There is no Spider-Man geared towards younger readers. There are Batman/Superman, Dexter’s Laboratory, and Scooby Doo comics for kids. But since they can just watch the cartoon why read the comic book?

Don’t worry, I figured we were just talking about more mainstream comics. But you should give him the Preacher books. How else can he learn about religion?

Marc

11

I haven’t bought any comics since high school (just seemed to drop out of the habit, really), but I still hear things. Might another reason that kids don’t seem to read comics much be the demise of subscriptions by mail? Today’s comic buyer likes pretty, pristine issues, which, let’s face it, isn’t exactly one of the US Postal Service’s strengths. As a result, I hear, comic publishers have dropped individual subscriptions. And if you have to go to a comic shop to pick up the latest issues, and you don’t have a driver’s license, well, that puts a crimp in things. Y’all think that might have a little somethin’ to do with it?

12

I doubt it. I don’t think subscriptions to homes has taken up a signifigant amount of sales in a number of years. A lot of people didn’t like to use them even back then. If I see a Spider-Man # 43 with a crease down the center I can pretty much guess that it was a subscription comic. If you want a particular comic book then most places are more then happy to order it for you. A lot of places even have what they call a subscription service. Basically you tell them to hold X,Y, and Z titles and you agree to pick them up at least once a month. They even offer 10-20% discounts on comics for subscription people. Although it varies by store. No license is needed.

Marc

13

Mmm… Preacher and Sandman… I’ve also enjoyed Goddess and Barry Ween as of late.

I’d have to agree that it’s a bit of a dying art for children, but at the same time some brilliant comics are being made.

I would think that children could enjoy titles like Bone, JLA, Gaiman’s Books of Magic, Green Arrow, Monster World, California Out There, Planetary, and Green Lantern. Those aren’t too hard for continuity. (They are also great for older readers as well. Especially Bone.)

14

A common observation through these is that most of the current comic book collectors are high school boys to those in their twenties. This reflects true to myself. As a kid I didn’t have access to money or a steady supply of comic books. Essentially, I had to wait till I got to the drug store and beg my mom to buy me one.

After I got in high school, that changed. Having a job (I refereed soccer games), I finally had cash to purchase comic books.

Now, with better transportation and money income, I’ve kept up with the collecting. But recently, I’ve become more disenchanted with the whole idea. There will be a couple of books I’ll keep up because there are some really good stories but mainly my fascination and support is dying off.

15

**The Watchmen.

Preacher.

Astro City**.
When work attains the level of art (and I say the 3 titles above have done so), it will affect anyone who has the guts to experience it.