Comment on new Forum Rules

[C_K_Dexter_Haven]

The forum moderators have consolidated and clarified the Rules and Policies for Cafe Society. Whether you’re a long-time member or a newcomer to the Cafe Society, please take the time to review them, in the thread New Forum Rules: PLEASE READ

If you want to comment on these rules, this is the place to do so.

We’re sort of evolving – especially the guidelines on when to use stickies – and so we’re glad to get thoughts and input. \

– Dex and Uke,
Your friendly Cafe Society Moderators

[Green_Bean]

I have a question about this portion:

Obviously, if the material is new, some people will want to experience it for themselves without knowing the ending or the secrets or whatever. Remember that the TV show you see on the east coast will not be seen for three to four hours later on the west coast. And perhaps not for weeks or months in a different country.

Does this mean that if we’re discussing a new episode of a given show, that we must put everything in spoiler boxes until it’s been aired on the west coast, Hawaii, and Timbuktu?

I’d think that if a thread is appropriately labeled (The Apprentice–Nov. 14: The Big Surprise), then we should be able to discuss it openly once it has aired. The west coasters and TIVOers and everybody else can simply avoid the thread until they’ve seen it. What’s the alternative? Having the entire discussion be in spoiler boxes?

Putting “Spoilers” in the thread title is not a good alternative, especially if the thread is started before the episode airs. This week’s Apprentice thread had “Spoilers” in the thread title, but that was misleading, as there were no spoilers posted at all until the show aired.

So, when can we start discussing a new TV show openly?

[AncientHumanoid]

The way we do it in Enterprise and LOST threads is

Put SPOILERS in the title.
If it’s aired, talk about it. (Includes previews and promos)
If it’s insider info about as yet unaired eps, box it.

Sure, there is a lot of other talk in the threads, and often some discussion before the ep airs. But spoiler boxing everything is annoying and cumbersome. If the word spoiler is in the title, and you haven’t seen the ep yet, avoid the thread if you don’t want to have any chance of spoilage.

It’s worked well for several years this way.

[BiblioCat]

@Green Bean

I have a question about this portion:
Does this mean that if we’re discussing a new episode of a given show, that we must put everything in spoiler boxes until it’s been aired on the west coast, Hawaii, and Timbuktu?

I’d think that if a thread is appropriately labeled (The Apprentice–Nov. 14: The Big Surprise), then we should be able to discuss it openly once it has aired. The west coasters and TIVOers and everybody else can simply avoid the thread until they’ve seen it.

I think that once it’s aired on the East Coast, we can discuss the show without boxes. Those in other time zones just need to stay out of the thread till they have seen the show. I live on the East Coast, so I get to see stuff “first,” as it were, but sometimes I tape and watch later, and I know not to read threads till after I’ve had a chance to watch that particular episode. It would be ridiculous to have two hour’s worth of responses in spoiler boxes.

I have another request about spoiler boxes. Occasionally someone will start a thread called, "What happened at the end of last night's 'CSI'?  - Spoilers wanted!" and the OP will say something along the lines of: "My power went out and I missed the end of *CSI*. Who was the killer? How did they figure it out?"
and the response will be spoiler boxed. I don't think that's necessary.

[Tangent]

It might also be prudent in the New Forum Rules thread to warn people about putting a spoiler box at the beginning of your OP, as the mouse-hover-popup-preview will reveal the contents of said spoiler. Most of us have learned this by now, but newbies might need that information.

[Gadfly]

It all looks good to me. I have only one question?

Smarmy Tucklas? What?

I mean, really, what the hell?

[shijinn]

OPs might want to quote tag their spoiler boxes like so,

i have not tested it out yet, but it should work i think.

[Silver_Fire]

@Green Bean

Putting “Spoilers” in the thread title is not a good alternative, especially if the thread is started before the episode airs. This week’s Apprentice thread had “Spoilers” in the thread title, but that was misleading, as there were no spoilers posted at all until the show aired.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to put “SPOILERS” in a thread title even before the show airs. The OP (and, generally, the regular participants to the weekly threads) knows that spoilers are going to be posted eventually, so it’s best to alert everyone right away. Otherwise somebody’s going to have to report the thread to the mods later (I know, I’ve had to do this with Lost threads), and that’s just unnecessary work.

I agree though that people really shouldn’t be complaining about spoilers (in the weekly TV show threads, anyway) if they’re reading the threads before they’ve actually seen the show. I think the word “SPOILERS” in the title is warning enough in these cases, and open discussion should be okay right away.

[JohnT]

In my opinion, if a thread is about a specific TV show/movie/book, then one should expect spoilers regardless of whether “spoilers” is in the title. I mean, what else is

Lost 11/10 “Confidence Man”

going to be about other than the November 10th episode of “Lost”, the one entitled “Confidence Man”? Why the need for a spoiler warning? Given that it is dedicated to that specific episode, is it not implied that the entire thread is a spoiler?

However, if the thread is more general, as in

Things you didn’t like about your favorite films

then spoiler tags are probably appropriate.

[C_K_Dexter_Haven]

Maybe we’ll try a re-wording, but I think the idea is pretty clear.

• People who have not seen (or read or heard or whatever) some show, and who don’t want any of the drama spoiled for them in advance, have the right not to have such information thrust upon them unwanted.

• Therefore, it is only common courtesy for other posters to provide SOME SORT OF WARNING when they are revealing plot information. That warning could be in the thread title, using the date of a show (“West Wing for November 10”) – however, merely using the date may not be sufficient. After all, we could have a discussion about some political question raised by the issue, that did not involve spoiling the plot. Hence, the ideal is something like “West Wing for November 10 – Warning: Spoilers”.

• Sometimes, the thread title is about something else. If I’m posting in a thread about MACBETH for instance, and I comment that the new Clint Eastwood movie has a sleep-walking murderess washing her hands… Well, presumably a thread about MACBETH doesn’t need spoilers, but that particular comment needs to be hidden.

So, I think we’re talking common sense here. I can’t imagine trying to legislate rules to describe the situations that might arise. We (the Moderators) are asking for simple courtesy: don’t give away plot without either (a) warning people that you are going to do so, so that they can avoid the thread completely; or (b) hiding your coments behind [spoiler] tags so that people can avoid that comment.

[Silver_Fire]

From JohnT

In my opinion, if a thread is about a specific TV show/movie/book, then one should expect spoilers regardless of whether “spoilers” is in the title.

But it’s just so easy. Yeah, maybe people ought to know, but if it’s a choice between one word in the thread title or a bunch of those god awful spoiler boxes, I’ll take the word in the title anyday. It’s one word! Just stick it in the title, it’s not a big deal.

[mkl12]

@C K Dexter Haven

Note that within a thread, anything that might be a spoiler from some other work should be hidden with spoiler tags, even if the thread title says “Spoilers.” Someone seeing thread about the movie PSYCHO, even with a Spoiler Warning, might be upset to find information about the surprise twist in this week’s West Wing, for example. So, be especially sensitive if you are revealing plot information about one work in a thread devoted to a different work.

And it should show what the spoiler is for outside of the box. In a thread about a specific work, one should, even in spoiler boxes, only expect spoilers for that work! If it is for something else, please say so outside the box. In threads not about a specific work, all boxes should be labeled.

[C_K_Dexter_Haven]

In threads not about a specific work, all boxes should be labeled.

Well-taken point, mkl12, we’ll add that.

Also, obviously, thread titles need to be specific. “What a great movie!” isn’t helpful.

People who DON’T want to have something spoiled, should try to avoid any thread on that topic, that’s pretty clear too. So, if both the spoilers and the spoilees exercise some common sense, I think we’ll get along fine.

[JohnT]

I wasn’t really “complaining” from a thread starters POV, (as in “those 8 letters are too much to type!”), but from a readers POV. If the thread is about a specific movie, TV show, etc, then one should expect spoilers as a matter of course.

Imho, of couse.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@mkl12

And it should show what the spoiler is for outside of the box. In a thread about a specific work, one should, even in spoiler boxes, only expect spoilers for that work! If it is for something else, please say so outside the box. In threads not about a specific work, all boxes should be labeled.

There’s the occasional exception to this. A thread called, “What Movies have the bad guy winning at the end?” doesn’t necessarily need spoiler boxes for each post in it, does it?

I’m not really sure how to handle such threads; I love reading them for discussion of movies I’m familiar with, but am always worried I’ll get spoiled for some movie I’ve not yet seen. I usually stay away from them, reluctantly.

Any ideas on how folks should post in them?

Daniel

[Eve]

So, am I in dutch for posting a chorus and verse of “Ma! He’s Makin’ Eyes at Me!” (1921)?

[C_K_Dexter_Haven]

No, Eve, you ain’t Dutch. Not even Belgian. A verse, a chorus, that’s all within “fair usage.”

@Left Hand of Darkness

A thread called, “What Movies have the bad guy winning at the end?” doesn’t necessarily need spoiler boxes for each post in it, does it?

Hah! Ample justification for the Moderators saying, we ain’t gonna try to write a legal code that covers all cases. We’d never manage it.

Common sense tells me that a thread like that is potentially going to have spoilers, although I won’t know for which movies. So, if I’m going to read that thread, I’m going to have to set myself up for potential spoilers. The thread title itself makes it clear.

So, I repeat my main argument: most of this is common sense (on the part of both those who post spoilers and on the part of those who don’t want to see spoilers) and common courtesy.

[lno]

Tch, Eve, post the entirety of that and you should be safe:

Therefore, the U. S. copyright in any work published or copyrighted prior to January 1, 1923, has expired by operation of law, and the work has permanently fallen into the public domain in the United States

Did I win?

[N9IWP]

I think Eve was asking because that movie has lapsed into public domain. (at least I think it has)
Posting the full lyrics of “Campdown Races” (written in 1850) is definitely legal, but we don’t want the mods to have to determine which lyrics are in the public domain.

For TV shows, posting the US air date is definitely encouraged. Putting “spoilers” in the title even before the show airs sounds like good courtesy (even tho I assume there will be spoilers in that case - I could go either way on this)
Brian

[C_K_Dexter_Haven]

Posting the full lyrics of “Campdown Races” (written in 1850) is definitely legal, but we don’t want the mods to have to determine which lyrics are in the public domain.

Correct. The mods have neither the time, nor the energy, nor the desire to check up the exact legal status of anything. If you MUST post an entire song, and if you’re sure that it’s in public domain, then:

(1) Email us the mods to tell us what you’ve done and why you’re ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, SURE and will swear an oath on all you hold sacred, that it’s in public domain. Evidence wouldn’t hurt.

(2) Make some sort of similar comment in your post. We don’t others to be reporting it, or (worse) thinking “X posted the whole song, so can I.”

Frankly, most of the time, you’re quoting from a song or poem to make a point or get the gist of the damn thing. I don’t need to copy the whole of MACBETH if I just want to say, “Tomorrow, and tomorrrow, and tomorrow.”